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Blaze

Re: B&M: Launch & 4D

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:21 pm

Fair enough, I haven't been on every B&M ever, but do I have to to be able to see they are predictable, repetative, over-engineering and devoid of anything to make them interesting?

Granted, three of the four British ones are fantastic, and Inferior isn't totally terrible either, but for every Nemesis and Batman they've ever built, they've built a Silver Bullet.
 
.Will

Re: B&M: Launch & 4D

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:34 pm

Yes of course, but isn't that the same for many other coaster companies.

Going to bask in my victory now.

:P
 
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Re: B&M: Launch & 4D

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:37 pm

Okay, I have not been on silver Bullet so I can't comment.

On the other hand, I have never come off a B&M grinning from ear to ear. I did find the airtime on Silver Star fabulous, but I found the physical coaster less exciting. I know The Hulk's launch had nothing to do with the company, but it packs a punch. If that is anything to go by, if it does happen then launch from B&M will be worth the wait.The future of this coaster type looked very bleak after Oblivion and G5 were built. I think parks were just not that interested, then around 2004 The Euro Fighter was born, and in some cases beat the Dive Machine hands down. Rage has such a kick, and Speed has such amazing airtime; they are both serious thrill rides.
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Blaze

Re: B&M: Launch & 4D

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:40 pm

".Will" wrote:
Yes of course, but isn't that the same for many other coaster companies.

Going to bask in my victory now.

:P


True enough, but the difference isn't so severe. With Intamin, if you order a thrill ride, you get one. B&M just don't do the fast, sharp movements and direction changes that a thrill coaster should have. Most of them are forcefull, but they're just too gracefull compared to Intamin. It works for rides like Air, but not on multi-loopers. They're early 90s stuff was inovative, but when they got to that formula, they stuck with it instead of trying to change the game again.
 
.Will

Re: B&M: Launch & 4D

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:48 pm

B&M started out on a high and that is the problem they haven't developed a winning formula because in a sense they have always had it. Many people are fixated around the fact that they are fantastic, they are very good yes but they are not always the best.

They started and took many existing designs and made them better, in most cases by just making them smoother and more comfortable, they have pioneered their own designs but when it comes to this they have been very relaxed.

This is their biggest fault, whilst other companies have stepped over the line and done something a little different of off the wall B&M haven't. They have stayed in their own little world and stuck to what they do and know best maybe because they are afraid of their standards falling.

It is only recently that we have seen them do more, the wingrider design and the over 300ft coaster and possibly a new ride at AT next year.

Well what is this a sign off? Maybe a dying beast desperate for survival? Deciding that staying in the position they were in would destroy the company that they are forced to move into the future and produce different designs? Who knows but it is certainly interesting to see what B&M produce because many of their new(er) coasters look a tad risky and not the 'usual B&M' that people see.

:)
 
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Benzin
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Re: The B&M Dive Machine - unpopular?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:24 pm

£££/$$$

That is the answer... Krake is the shortest drop and even that reaches 100ft... Says it all really...


A shame, because they are a good ride type, and when designed well can work a treat... Maybe with the smaller 6 seater versions we may see a handful more appear...
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Re: The B&M Dive Machine - unpopular?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:06 pm

I think the problem with them is they filled a perfect gap for the time they where first introduced but the world has moved on. Glad that B&M have finally started to realise you cant milk a dead horse forever. Innovation is what they do well.
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Blaze

Re: B&M: Launch & 4D

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:19 pm

Seeing B&M actually design rides again is a great thing. They got to where they are now by pushing themselves in the 90s, but then started doing the same thing over and over, and with more and more emphasis on being perfectly smooth and engineered, and they lost intensity and fun.

It's fantastic their recent rides are changing things. It would be interesting to know how much input the parks have had on it, because while Raptor and Swarm will have had a lot of input from the parks, as well as the Chinese flyer, Dollywood's new wingrider might as well be a standard sit down/invert/flyer with it's layout, and the Six Flags one is somewhere in the middle, it's rather unique but uses the drop from The Swarm and borrows from standard designs.
 
CF1

Re: The B&M Dive Machine - unpopular?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:59 pm

Dont forgot, in amerika have Annheuser Busch (Busch Gardens) the rights on the Dive Machines. No other Park can build it. I dont now how long they have the rights, but it is the only reason why u dont find another Diver in the Staates.

Its not the Money and not that the rides are too short.
 
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Re: The B&M Dive Machine - unpopular?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:11 pm

Hmmm one way to make them more appealing would be to take the name literally and stick an air train on there I stead so you literally dive vertically, head first :wink: :p
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Re: The B&M Dive Machine - unpopular?

Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:39 pm

While the Dive Machines are B&Ms most limited product they are certainly not on the way out. If you'd asked this question in 2004 I would have agreed but recently sales have surged to almost one every year. 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011. That's a lot better than many of their other products. I'd predict the main reason we haven’t seen more has more to do with the cost of such giants. Either you have to build them high or dig down deep.

For a Fear inducing ride there are very few like it (The Eurofighters aren’t scary to anywhere near the same degree)

What's important to remember about the Wingrider is that it's not a new concept. Since Intamin built one and Arrow built the 4D there has been a huge desire for them. Unfortunately Arrow went bankrupt and Intamins design is technically a Wingwalker not Wingrider (The carts are above the track, not inline). Then B&M design their own and all those parks that would have built one before are ready to invest and already have plans.
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B&M: 2012 Major year

Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:15 pm

So in 2012 we will see B&M open 6 new coasters.
Is this a record for the amount of B&M coasters in one year?

Giga: Canada's Wonderland |"Leviathan"|
Hyper: Port Aventura |"Shambhala"|
Wing Coaster: Six Flags Great America |"X-Flight"|
Wing Coaster: Dollywood |"Wild Eagle"|
Wing Coaster: Thorpe Park |"The Swarm"|
Invert: Parc Asterix |"Oz'Iris"|


Also a re-location of a Stand Up.

It is great to see the expansion of such a great company, especially when in a recession, and as we all know B&M coasters aint exactly the cheapest on the market.

Also I may be wrong but did I read not too long ago that B&M would only normally have 3 new coasters opening in one year? And that is why it takes soo long to open a B&M coaster from planning etc?

Also seems like Intamin are having a quiet year this year.
Last edited by CJH on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: B&M: 2012 Major year

Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:11 pm

Believe it or not it isn't a record. 2002 saw 7 new B&Ms open and 2006 matched this year. However half of these rides were clones unlike this year were as all 6 unique rides. This has been really interesting me so I'm going to do a little rundown on my thoughts for each ride:

Leviathan
Well done B&M for reaching the 300 mark! Quite an impressive coaster too. This will certainly be a match for Millennium Force and Intimidator 305. Besides the normal hyper coaster air time hills I notice they’ve also included several low and fast sections (a first for B&M?).  This should be a great ride.

Shambhala
Europe’s new tallest roller coaster. Again this looks much more interesting than the traditional hyper coaster layout: Low sections, tunnels, a splash zone and that funky turnaround. I’m still not sure about the layouts pacing but we’ll have to wait and see. Unfortunately it’s become slightly unpopular due to the changes being made to Dragon Khan.

Wild Eagle
As anyone whose read the topic will know I’m slight underwhelmed by Wild Eagle. Not that I think it won’t be great but I was expecting a bit more. However I think my main issue is just how much hype this is getting. As America’s first Wingrider there’s a lot of fuss over what looks to be a slightly weaker version of the other 3. Still I’d like to be proved wrong.

The Swarm
What more do I need to say, The Swarm looks incredible. This looks to be a great ride with an excellent theme. It will probably become Marlins flagship attraction. (As in the one they use to show off what they can do)

X-Flight
For a standard Six Flags style ride I’m rather impressed by this. It fixes the one issue with The Swarm (its length) but unfortunately at the cost of most the theme (but not quite all). Still a good looking ride I just wish there was more to say about it.

Oz'Iris
I think this is B&M's wild card. It's getting a lot of stick at the moment for basically copying Montu’s aesthetics. But I reckon this coaster might be one to watch. It’s the first Inverted B&M since 2008 and they have chosen a radically different design. I love the first inversion. I suspect it will be a great opener but not too powerful that everything else pales in comparison. The next corner looks incredibly fast and the two following inversions run from one to the other with a slight drop which I think will add a real punch. I am only concern by the finally which seems to trail off. If this ride turns out as I hope I think it could easily blow Mamba out the water.

So yeah that’s my views. Anyone else want to add their thoughts?
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Swarm Chris
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Re: B&M Discussion

Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:54 pm

Digging out an old topic here, as I came across an interesting video from the B&M fabrication facility in the US. They do all US manufacture, along with China and some European production. 

The facility stores all the track it builds, outside in full public view. The guy who does these videos seems to go down there quite regularly and gave the opinion that there was more track laid out than he'd seen before. He guessed there were two, maybe three coasters, with probably one hyper and one sit down being built.

So the question is, who are going to be the eventual owners of all this new track?

 
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Re: B&M Discussion

Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:39 pm

I've found B&M to be quite stagnant over the past few years. They really haven't done much in a while and the limelight has been going towards manufacturers like RMC. I haven't been keeping up on Asian additions which may be quite prolific at the moment.
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Re: B&M Discussion

Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:49 pm

AltonOperator wrote:
I've found B&M to be quite stagnant over the past few years. They really haven't done much in a while and the limelight has been going towards manufacturers like RMC. I haven't been keeping up on Asian additions which may be quite prolific at the moment.

B&M have been building a lot in China, but they've had a decent few years in the west as well with Valravn, Mako, Valkyria, Thunderbird, Fenix etc.

I do hope that Alton Towers install another B&M coaster before too long. They're smooth, high capacity and reliable. Fantastic investments :)
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Re: B&M Discussion

Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:20 am

B&M have definitely been perfecting their craft, and seemingly waiting for each of their newer types of coaster to become popular.

What kind of B&M could Alton install though? I really can't see a wing coaster fitting in anywhere, unless they dug a big hole into one of their car parks. Of their current designs, a floorless is about all I could see them fitting in.
 
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Re: B&M Discussion

Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:05 pm

Swarm Chris wrote:
B&M have definitely been perfecting their craft, and seemingly waiting for each of their newer types of coaster to become popular.

What kind of B&M could Alton install though? I really can't see a wing coaster fitting in anywhere, unless they dug a big hole into one of their car parks. Of their current designs, a floorless is about all I could see them fitting in.


I'd put a launched, ground hugging B&M wingrider in Forbidden Valley on the site of The Edge, The Blade, Ripsaw and it could extend a bit into the woodland if needed as was originally going to be the case for SW8.
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