UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
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Sam
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 5:49 pm

"kryn" wrote:
I just recieved this email, and thought I would share it with you. Make of it what you want but it doesnt actually say "No" does it?

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I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate for a moment, just to outline any criticisms of this e-mail, though it's definitely swayed me somewhat into Shawn's camp. Like several people have already pointed out, Alton and the manufacturers know the unusual levels of fandom surrounding Alton Towers and any new ride and may have set up an agreement to all send back replies like this. This presumes Alton are on good terms with B&M if they aren't the manufacturer.

Saying all that, the odd bit is "before completion and official opening date". That really does not sound like language someone who wasn't building the thing would use. Also if it was another manufacturer, they wouldn't have to give "further information" after completion. What are they gonna do, just send back an e-mail then saying "Well you know it's not us now. Go and enjoy your MACK. Hopefully we'll get the contract for 7, fingers crossed! Love, Claude & Walter".
 
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Khanage
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 6:00 pm

Out of interest Mark what did your email to them say?
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Dagan
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 6:09 pm

"ShootTheCore" wrote:
Saying all that, the odd bit is "before completion and official opening date". That really does not sound like language someone who wasn't building the thing would use.


Many years ago I wrote to B&M asking about SW4 (Oblivion) asking what they were doing that was making it a worlds first and what other stuff they were working on.

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Seems Kryn got a pretty standard response.
 
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Jonnyc
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 6:12 pm

Unless there was a mix up and b&m are goin to construct something in the black hole tent and intamin are building SW6
 
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Mikey
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 6:23 pm

Before I post this I'd just like to state I am apart of the crowd that think SW6 won't be a B&M. That's not to say I wouldn't like it to be though.

But the point I want to make to those who seem passionately against the fact that B&M won't and will never will make bi-rail track is... are you sure? B&M have made monster rides FOREVER - and now everyone who can afford one has 1, even 2,3 or 4. All other major ride builders do a variety of models for various age groups, so maybe B&M want to branch out further and create more affordable, slightly smaller rides so that those who can't afford one of their box-track monsters can still purchase from them.

Not that I think it is B&M, but you never know.
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 7:00 pm

Article in the Sentinel today says that Alton are planning a third hotel and to invest millions of pounds over the next ten years to expand that park's reach.

If that is true, it would make the prospect of two new rides for next year a lot more believable.
 
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Sam
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 7:21 pm

This letter to Dagan apart from giving an example of B&M actually replying to a letter doesn't disprove or prove the e-mail to me. In the e-mail, they specifically referred to SW6 whereas in the letter they made a broad comment about being unable to provide details about ANY new projects. Interesting the use of almost exactly the same phrase twice, "we cannot give information on the project before completion and the official opening".

In the case of Dagan's letter they WERE the manufacturers for SW4 so the repeated phrase might be a clue here. Mentioning the "completion" and "official phrasing" just seems like odd, odd phrasing to me if they aren't behind this.
Last edited by Sam on Wed May 06, 2009 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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jonathan leake
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 7:35 pm

Yes the way that is worded would make you think it could be something more than just the one rollercoaster we are all expecting.
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 7:55 pm

"havaska" wrote:
Article in the Sentinel today says that Alton are planning a third hotel and to invest millions of pounds over the next ten years to expand that park's reach.

If that is true, it would make the prospect of two new rides for next year a lot more believable.



I read an article lyk that today as well and as alton have stated they are planing to invest millions so we could see a few good rides in the next few years and i believe that we could see 2 roller coasters in 2010 correct me if i am wrong but i heard something bout the third hotel being discussed at a meeting in may along with the new ride don't no if thats true or not
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 7:57 pm

We have a thread for the 3rd hotel. It can be found here

Also, to discuss any other new rides please use the "Ten Year Plan" thread which can be found here.

This way, we can keep this thread strictly devoted to SW6 and 2010!

:)
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Alton Towers and any new ride and may have set up an agreement to all send back replies like this. This presumes Alton are on good terms with B&M if they aren't the manufacturer.


Do you seriously think that Alton Towers management are sitting in their office, so bored, they have nothing better to do than to set up a confusing trap in order to trick 50 or so people following a thread the forum. Really? I mean common... there is imaginative thinking but this is just OTT.

As for all of these people screaming about the costs of changing track design. Have you actually considered what these costs might be? Because changing a track design simply requires slight adjustments to drawings that would otherwise of have to have been made anyway. As for production of this track, once again, costs would not be a problem, as the track is made from sheet steel, its simply a matter of constructing it is a slightly different way. I mean, if anything a new track design could cut costs as it may require less steel to be used in the first place. The stuff isn't churned out of a mass production factory, it's simply a load of men welding and cutting sheet steel to drawings.

Can I also point out that I personally don't believe that a slight difference to the track in the drawings and that of standard B&M would have any major impact on planning. As far as the council are concerned the track on the plans is generally representative of what direction the track will take. It's like submitting plans for an extension, on the plans it may have PVC windows, but at the end of the day so long as they are in the same position I can have them whatever design I wish, be it stained glass, metal inlay and so on...

I would also like to bring up the idea that it may simply be the case that B&M have sub-contracted the track to a different company or ride manufacture and that they are simply producing the trains. It's unlikely but has happened in the past with various ride manufactures.

Im not going to say for sure it's B&M, but it certainly looks like it will be.
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Sam
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 8:20 pm

"Kaz" wrote:
Alton Towers and any new ride and may have set up an agreement to all send back replies like this. This presumes Alton are on good terms with B&M if they aren't the manufacturer.


Do you seriously think that Alton Towers management are sitting in their office, so bored, they have nothing better to do than to set up a confusing trap in order to trick 50 or so people following a thread the forum. Really? I mean common... there is imaginative thinking but this is just OTT.

That's completely not what I am saying at all. Obviously, it is in a theme parks interest to keep some things secret, such as Oblivion's vertical drop and SW6's tunnel section for hype and marketing purposes. I have no idea why Alton have an interest in keeping the manufacturer under wraps (as they have obviously showed they do otherwise they would have just put it in the planning app or mentioned it in one of the e-mails) but they do. I wasn't saying they are trying to do it to confuse rollercoaster enthusiasts, in fact it's not a trap at all. They are not trying to trick us, they are just not telling us who the manufacturer is. For whatever reasons they don't want us to know just yet it would only take a few phone calls to the major players telling them not to deny or confirm any involvement.

"Kaz" wrote:
I would also like to bring up the idea that it may simply be the case that B&M have sub-contracted the track to a different company or ride manufacture and that they are simply producing the trains. It's unlikely but has happened in the past with various ride manufactures.

This is actually an interesting possibility. B&M have only constructed just trains once, for Psyclone. Aside from trains, could it possibly be another sort of collaboration between two rollercoaster manufacturers? The track just REALLY doesn't look B&M to me, but as people have said before innovation isn't totally alien to them...
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 8:24 pm

That's completely not what I am saying at all. Obviously, it is in a theme parks interest to keep some things secret, such as Oblivion's vertical drop and SW6's tunnel section for hype and marketing purposes. I have no idea why Alton have an interest in keeping the manufacturer under wraps (as they have obviously showed they do otherwise they would have just put it in the planning app or mentioned it in one of the e-mails) but they do. I wasn't saying they are trying to do it to confuse rollercoaster enthusiasts, in fact it's not a trap at all. They are not trying to trick us, they are just not telling us who the manufacturer is. For whatever reasons they don't want us to know just yet it would only take a few phone calls to the major players telling them not to deny or confirm any involvement.


Yeah thats fine, it just appeared that you were suggesting Alton had told the likes of B&M to play bluff?

As for the track could someone please post a link to plans showing track design?
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 8:30 pm

Am sure B&M started as 2 workers working for intamin and then went off and done there own thing so is it possible they are working together on SW6

---- Post Info Added ----

theres the link and also a good animation on there [url=http://2010.towersnerd.com/plans.php" target="_blank]http://2010.towersnerd.com/plans.php[/url]
 
Chris W
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 8:32 pm

B&M will not work with Intamin.
It would be like Microsoft and Apple working together.

They are rival companies.
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SAM93

Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 8:32 pm

Wow, that Email sure does make it sound like B&M are the manufacturers...

Some of you may possibly be in need of giving out many apologies to a certain Mr Leroy Jones and Mr Sanbrooke come opening day!
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 8:47 pm

"Disco Ball" wrote:
B&M will not work with Intamin.
It would be like Microsoft and Apple working together.

They are rival companies.



Didn't B&M start out working for intamin tho
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 8:53 pm

First up, we've seen replies from Mack saying pretty much the same as B&M! OMG! It's a B&Mack ride! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Manufacturers will be aware of park's projects, and out of professional courtesy will not reveal anything. I think there's no doubt B&M will have been consulted within the last couple of years on putting a ride in for Alton, it's just that they weren't the right people this time around.

As for the whole B&M thing.

Look at it this way.

You're Gordon Ramsey. You produce a top quality menu and your restaurant is full to capacity and booked up for as far as you can see. You produce the same four courses for everyone, but it's what you do best, and the food is delicious - everyone loves it.

A regular requests a special dinner for him and his guests. He wants a Big Mac Meal, with Coke and an Apple Pie. As a professional, you would just suggest that he goes to McDonalds. Okay, yours may be the best Big Mac meal ever, but it's a one off. You're not going to start selling Big Mac meals because you already have enough cash coming in from your restaurant, and if you did, they'd be more expensive than McDonalds and you'd be competing with them.

It just doesn't make any sense. If your company is doing badly, then maybe you would consider competing at a different level. B&M though produce a range of popular, top quality rides with little extra garnishes. They are full to brimming, and turning away people like Universal!

It doesn't add up that they would go for this Big Mac meal at Alton.

Even the cost doesn't add up. £12,000,000. Charlie re-theme cost £7,500,000! Look at the theming, the "worlds first element" and then show me where they could pull in a prototype B&M and come in anywhere near budget. The building on Saw was several million on its own!

B&M also have their own fabrication plants. They make their own track and cars. Generally, Stengel will design the ride layout. They're not going to outsource to another company to make the track, Stengel for the layout and just produce cars (when the company producing the track could do that anyway).

Nothing at all adds up to B&M doing this, nothing in the slightest. It's all huge amounts of hurdles and obstacles and inventing ways of making B&M fit. If you have to work so hard trying to shoe-horn B&M in, when there are half a dozen other companies that fit the bill almost 100% - then I'm afraid there's something wrong.

Yes, there are 20 ways the world could change to make B&M the manufacturer, but the absolute bottom line is six companies could produce this ride and nothing in the world would have to change for them to fit.
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 9:07 pm

Your right there and a want it to be a B&M but they cost alot and the looks of the plans its going to take a big bit of money out of the budjet just for the building and theming and if it was a B&M you wont get much of a coaster for whats left cos going off the plans the will have to change the track and a cant see that happening and as someone said they are turning away big name parks cz they have that many orders
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed May 06, 2009 9:17 pm

"Jonnyc""][quote=""Disco Ball" wrote:
B&M will not work with Intamin.
It would be like Microsoft and Apple working together.

They are rival companies.



Didn't B&M start out working for intamin tho[/quote]

But that was when they were one company. Now they are two rival companies.
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