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Mankey
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Fri May 08, 2009 10:40 pm

Lmao! Sam, I was talking about Coastercrazychris's post! :P Thats what set me off!
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And.
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Fri May 08, 2009 10:41 pm

"ShootTheCore""][quote=""Disco Ball""][quote=""Mankey" wrote:
What do people have against family coasters?! I dont get it! :shock: God, I want to know how you'd all cope at Disneyland!


Didn't you get the e-mail? all rides from now built at Alton Towers must be thrill rides....[/quote]
It's ridiculous and stupid to imply that I'm being unreasonable by criticizing SW6 for being family thrill after Alton have (according to your post) been on some sort of Magic-Mountain-style rampage of adding thrill rides constantly year after year.

They haven't, in the last 10 years three of the years have been for thrill seekers (and that's debatable, firstly one of them was crap (Submission) and one of them (Air) I'd definitely class as "family thrill". That's less than a third of the years for thrill seekers. Not what I call a balance at all.[/quote]

I could imagine a Peter Griffin style tantrum after that little rant.

WAAAH!

In your opinion the rides of the last decade have not been for thrill seekers, but what Alton Towers is trying to do is create an overall balance of kiddy, family, thrill rides across the whole park.

Corkscrew was a family thrill ride. It was removed. It is being replaced by another family thrill ride.

Simple as.

I don't see why it should be any other way.

The Secret Weapon tag is not about a military/secret installation theme no matter which way you spin it. It's about pushing the boundaries of what people expect from rollercoasters. In that respect, I think this new ride fits the bill.
 
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Sam
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Fri May 08, 2009 10:53 pm

"And.""][quote=""ShootTheCore""][quote=""Disco Ball""][quote=""Mankey" wrote:
What do people have against family coasters?! I dont get it! :shock: God, I want to know how you'd all cope at Disneyland!


Didn't you get the e-mail? all rides from now built at Alton Towers must be thrill rides....[/quote]
It's ridiculous and stupid to imply that I'm being unreasonable by criticizing SW6 for being family thrill after Alton have (according to your post) been on some sort of Magic-Mountain-style rampage of adding thrill rides constantly year after year.

They haven't, in the last 10 years three of the years have been for thrill seekers (and that's debatable, firstly one of them was crap (Submission) and one of them (Air) I'd definitely class as "family thrill". That's less than a third of the years for thrill seekers. Not what I call a balance at all.[/quote]

I could imagine a Peter Griffin style tantrum after that little rant.

WAAAH!

In your opinion the rides of the last decade have not been for thrill seekers, but what Alton Towers is trying to do is create an overall balance of kiddy, family, thrill rides across the whole park.

Corkscrew was a family thrill ride. It was removed. It is being replaced by another family thrill ride.

Simple as.

I don't see why it should be any other way.

The Secret Weapon tag is not about a military/secret installation theme no matter which way you spin it. It's about pushing the boundaries of what people expect from rollercoasters. In that respect, I think this new ride fits the bill.[/quote]
Will you be happy when the next major coaster is toned down for families? And the next? And the next? I'm not saying their shouldn't be family thrill coasters, but their should be a mix and the way the resort is heading, it doesn't feel like we're ever gonna get a true thrill coaster again. Trying to be everything to all people all the time means you don't do anything well. Jack of all trades, master of none.

And your point about it replacing the Corkscrew; when it was built Corky was definitely a full-on thrill coaster, it should be replaced with one. Thrill coaster for SW6, "family-thrill" for Black Hole, then another thrill coaster in a few years, and so on. That'd be fine with me.
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Fri May 08, 2009 11:44 pm

But Alton Towers is now a more family friendly park. I am glad it has gone this way.

Family (and family thrill coasters)
Spinball,
RMT,


Vs

Thrill Coasters:
Nemesis,
Air,
Oblivion
Rita


So I wouldn't say that Alton have a fair mix of Thrill and family (thrill) coasters.

I agree with them going in a more family focused direction for the time being. Thrillseekers will get their time, as at the moment they are just trying to get a decent balance. Wether the coasters are new or not the thrills are still there and are far greater than family coasters, they are still trying to get a decent balance. Yes admittidly there are a lot more family attractions on a whole. But family attractions cater for everyone to some extent.
Until they get this decent balance I aint expecting anything thrill ride wise. If and when they get this balance, and then not add any thrill things, that is when I will start to moan. But until that day, family areas/rides/shows etc are very welcome.

Look at Thorpe I find the atmosphere somewhat intimidating, as it is full of teenagers, chavs etc. Yes Alton do get chavs, but you see a hell of a lot of more families around the park. Which to me is a much better park atmosphere.

In a way adding more family attractions is creating a better atmosphere for all other guests.
I'd rather have an Alton atmosphere than a Thorpe atmosphere.
Last edited by CJH on Fri May 08, 2009 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Fri May 08, 2009 11:45 pm

Wat so you only class rollercoasters as family? Alton now has more family attractions than ever before.
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Fri May 08, 2009 11:47 pm

If you read the edited post you will understand, I did say it in a way that come across wrongly.
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rightbackgranty
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 12:25 am

STC, who says that all of the next Coasters will be toned down for the family market? I dont think that will be the case at all to be honest.

Year on year Alton had thrill addition after thrill addition - Nemesis, Submission, Rita, Oblivion, Hex (I am classing this as "thrill", as you'd be hard pressed to see any under 9's on there due to the nature of the experience) - and the areas for the smaller children became more and more neglected. Cred Street went into Decline, Storybook Land has looked shabby for a number of years (and even worse thanks to the Dung Heap). It is only now, after the construction of Mutiny Bay, retheme to Cloud Cuckoo Land, and Spinball whizzer, than the park is only just creating the balance again, and It could do with a tiny bit more work. From the info we've seen from Shawn - we're having a family thrill in SW6, and apparently another coaster in the Black Hole tent - if thats true, what if the new Black Hole tent ride was a compact thrill coaster? Wouldnt that be a mix of family and thrill?

I wouldnt class Air as a family thrill coaster either, simply due to the height restriction. 1m40 is too tall for the majority of people that go with a family. When you watch the queue, you dont see many young kids on it - the majority of the riders are in the teenage years and older.

I agree with Corkscrew being added as a thrill attraction... 20 or so years ago. Things have changed though, and for the last 10 years it had been more of a family ride - a family ride was removed, so why not replace it with another?

Personally, I would prefer to see a compact thrill ride in the Black Hole tent - keep that area solely for the thrill seekers - Oblivion, Compact inverted (perhaps) and a couple of new flats could keep everyone happy.

Alton Towers are trying to sell themselves as a resort - Disneyland have a mix of thrill rides (space mountain, Tower of Terror, Rock n Roller Coaster) and childrens rides (Crush's Coaster, Buzz Lightyear Ride). They could be classed as jack of all trades, but it works! I dont see why Alton cant attempt that on a smaller scale
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 3:03 am

I think it's all too easy to start categorising rides and parks into family & thrill. You can't put a ride under such a wide umbrella, and you certainly can't put guests or groups of guests into such strict stereotypes.

Different people like different things, and thrill doesn't need to be just for adults. Hex gives me (and most of my friends) a bigger buzz then Nemesis, it's an experience that can appeal to many different groups of people, and for different reasons. It's more emotionally stimulating, and incites a real mixture of feelings. Some people don't like to be physically thrown about to get your heart rate going, but instead prefer theatrical displays and riveting narrative for their kicks...I am one of these people....Oblivion for me is more about the queue and the atmosphere then the actual ride. Seeing the faces of the people around me, trapped in cage-like tunnels leading to a station full of clanking machinery and screaming guests it makes a feeling in my stomach that a basic coaster-on-a-car-park could never get out of me!

A family thrill coaster.......let's think of a ride that fits that category....how about RMT. One of the best (and most underrated by thrillseekers) rides at the park, it is nicely themed, offers a great trundle through Katanga, and the corner before the tunnel is very forceful. There's also the added bonus of the 'Rapids waving at Mine Train' ritual. All in all it's a fantastic experience, that TTF love on meets, that families seem to really enjoy, and it can be a kids first attempt at a rollercoaster.

Something on the same lines as RMT with a real back story and great setting would be a brilliant addition to the park, and I think SW6 will deliver this and more! I think SW6 is going to cater to RMTs age group, hopefully filling in the early teens gap too.

You can't judge Alton Towers choices with such a black and white attitude, they understand their market, it's their job......if you feel you can make better sense of the market STC, I'd stop posting on an online forum and start raking in the millions....but looking at your posts and the short-sightedness of your arguments (arguments that are basically throwing your rattle out of the pram because you want another thrill ride)....it's not something you have a full grasp of.....Alton Towers are doing very well at the moment, and the family-focus seems to be working for them much better then the half-arsed attempt of being 'Thrill/Family Neutral' in 2007.
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 3:20 am

"ShootTheCore" wrote:
Oh come on, even you must have found it hard to write that without laughing. In the development of the steel rollercoaster, only one company could anywhere near claim they "made the industry what it is today" and that's Arrow Dynamics.
    First steel rollercoaster, ever
    First modern inverting coaster
    First suspended coaster (without this, there would be no inverts)
    First coaster over 200ft (which forms the basis of nearly all subsequent higher rides until TTD)
    First 4D coaster
.


Thing is if you managed to look into the history of Vekoma you would see just ow much involvement they had with some of those you state above. Vekoma are the company still in business to date and pick up after Arrow by replacing trains for their rides etc.

Vekoma get a raw deal when it comes to typical stereotypes from enthusiasts like yourself. You can't see beyond the box really but instead are choosing to join an age old stereotype about vekomas being rough as toast when they are not all rough.


"ShootTheCore" wrote:
The "flying" coasters were apparently rushed out the door to beat B&M, which explains the godawful ride design of laying down in the station. I really don't think switch track is an innovation on a similar scale to the above. Disney use them because they have to, they spend so much on theming a rollercoaster that if they also got a decent manufacturer for the ride it'd cost a fortune.


Vekoma's first Flying Dutchmen 2000
Air 2002

Hardly rushed and again, might I suggest you do your research.

"ShootTheCore" wrote:
Yeah, The Daily Mail is a much higher quality newspaper than The Times or The Guardian because it's read by more people :roll:


Point proven there thank you. Vekoma aren't the best but they sell more rides and the more popular choice. They have the most designs, largest portfolio, greatest range and years of experience. The fact they are earning lots means their designs can be modernised and roughness irned out which the will when the release their next range which is going to be amazing. :mrgreen:
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 6:41 am

To be honest, I see the ride being a cross-between The Ultimate & Expedition Everest, both family-thrill coasters in my opinion.
To be honest, once Corkscrew & Black Hole went Alton were missing two family coasters. Corkscrew, in my opinion was considered a family-thrill as some young people were quite scared of it. I think this ride will be similar only a bit more innovative.
I remember being in year 5, and riding Revenge Of The Mummy at Unierversal Hollywood Studios, and being terrified but still enjoying the ride.

I think SW6 will strive for a similar thing. :)
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 12:54 pm

I think that in all truth, people are just taking the word "family" way too seriously, and imagining we're going to get something that the whole family can ride so is therefore unthrilling. What I think we need to get into perspective is that you don't necessarily need 8 inversions and a 200 ft drop to thrill somebody, yes whilst it looks impressive and screams "thrill market" it isn't necessarily an experience, that's where Six Flags fall down completely.

A thrill doesn't have to occur whilst held in by OTSR's that people only 1.4m or taller can fit into; I would call elements of Duel thrilling (when working at full potential), however it's still a family ride and doesn't carry much of a height restriction so allows more people to experience it. Alton aren't trying to isolate the thrill market and stop teenagers wanting to visit the park, they're simply trying to create a ride that can thrill people who are 10 and people who are 30. I wouldn't call The Black Hole in its raw form a thrill coaster, but due to its setting and darkness it was for me a more thrilling ride than Air.

A ride doesn't have to drop you down 400ft to create a thrill, as all Hex fans will all know, Hex doesn't go much faster than the Beastie, but still creates a hell of a lot of adrenaline in people as its a full experience. I'm not hoping for Nemesis MkII here, as we have Nemesis for that, I feel what AT really need is an experience coaster like Disney would build. A ride that can simply evoke excitement by immersing riders into a deep storyline. Hell, i'd take Space Mountain over a Six Flags Carpark coaster anyday :D
 
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Mikey
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 1:55 pm

Theming does help an average ride become a brilliant ride. Just look at something like Big Thunder Mountain. All average coasters, but because of the theme they're fantastic experiences.

That's why, hopefully, even if we have a pretty mediocre coaster in SW6 (I'm not saying it will be) then the theme will make it in to a great ride.
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 2:31 pm

Theming is crucial if they are going to pull this off. SW6 is supposed to be "psychologically" engaging. im hoping like SAW at TP or even Hex. The only thing i am worried about is the manufacturer. I really Hope it will be Intamin, they did such a great job on Rita. (i think they made rita anyway)

also these people that keep saying watch the ground may have a point. if you look on the artwork of the gate: you can see a statue inside the ride area. whether this comes into play or if its just a plain old piece of theming we will have to wait and see but here is a pic of what I mean:

[url=http://www.screamscape.com/assets/images/db_images/db_2009_0111_CoasterPlans21.jpg" target="_blank]http://www.screamscape.com/assets/image ... lans21.jpg[/url]

also someone said this on youtube and i think he has a point

"I've heard some people say just cause its got no inversions its not gonna be a family coaster.
Does Rita have inversions?
As a secret weapon, it WILL BE....... A SECRET WEAPON."
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 2:39 pm

I can see the Theming evolving as the years go on. As the ride gets older and theming and buildings become more weathered it will make the ride look so much better.
Particulary if they are going for the rumoured storyline.

I can imagine a lot of statues (with bits missing off them) around the queueline with thick planting growing around them.
There is a big opportunity here to create an immersive attraction instead of a themed rollercoaster.

It actually would give Alton Towers an excuse not to look after planting and cleaning as much as they would have to on a ride with a different theme. :P
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 7:08 pm

As far as I'm aware, it IS a thrill-focus next year. :-? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm just surprised to see people stating it's family-thrill...
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 7:44 pm

I pray its thrill based i really do
And to say Alton are trying to get a good mix i think the scales are a bit unevenly balanced on the family side with every year another family based ride been added.
Looking at the plans i cant really see this being on the thrill level that we are used to but being some sort of "elite" mine train which is my worst nightmare. On the lines of the manufacturer i really dont want it be vekoma because i honestly believe that their rides are not Secret Weapon standard and in general their biggest trick seems to be mine trains, and yes everyone goes on about expedition everest but really the ride is not that good and half the people who rave on about it have not ridden it and are making their opinions on it from youtube videos.
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 8:55 pm

I'm thinking that its going to be thrill but a lower height restriction then Nemesis etc.
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WillXav
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 8:59 pm

I think the height restriction will be like RotM (Revenge of the Mummy).
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 9:18 pm

1.2m like the other family thrills
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Sat May 09, 2009 9:51 pm

With a height limit of 1.2 doesn't mean that we are in for a tame ride. The limit is determined by the train design. I think that this could be a good thing as it will appeal to more people. I think the make or break of this ride will not be who is building it, but what the experience will be like within the building. It must be something special as its been kept a secret.

I agree with Disco Ball, that the appearance of this ride will improve with age due the style of the concept images. It cries out for ivy and moss etc to grow on and around the ride. It would look amazing if the track looks like its part of the wood.

I do hope this ride will be an experience from entering the queue to when you leave the ride at the end.
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