UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
EdwinOkli
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:03 pm

Pfft, yeah..
 
rightbackgranty
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:23 pm

I dont think that the lift system has to be "slow and pointless". The lift system on the Tower of Terror at Disney is anything but that. OK, it takes a few seconds to align the lift system with the rest of the exit track, but they distract you with sound and effects.

Im sure Alton could think of something that distracts you for the 5 seconds in which it would take the two sections of track to line up. Black out perhaps? Flashes of lightning? Wind Effects? All of those would take your mind off a stationary section.
 
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furie
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:43 pm

It doesn't have to be a fast drop.

Hex doesn't tip you upside down or swing violently, but it's still a fantastic effect. If you read the Brendan Walker stuff, you'll see he's working not just on the actual physical stuff, but also is focused tightly on the psychology!

A fast lift and good effects could easily confuse the mind into thinking it's a longer, faster drop than it is.
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Big Dave

Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:45 pm

Yes but towers of terror is done via cables, its much taller and therefore has longer to slow you down. If this coaster was 100ft up then a freefall drop could be done, as you would just wack a shed load of magnetic brakes to slow it down, but with such a small drop, the system would have to start to slow you down before you have even started moving properly. I think this WILL be based on effects, but I think the switchback will be your more standard switchback like Expedition Everest.
 
Kaz
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:56 pm

Dave, I don't think you quite know what you are getting at using the term 'freefall'. A freefall drop is a drop with no external influence. Tower of Terror is not a freefall, nor is say detonator... they all have systems in place that control elements of the drop in some way. The same would apply to this coaster. It would not simply be dropped with a system to 'catch' it at the bottom, that would be reckless.
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adsyrah
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:04 pm

I'm thinking the track will be on a few pneumatic arms that pull you down suddenly. That's both very controlled and will also give you the feeling of free falling.

Then, as mentioned above, some kind of show/effects/video/whatever to take your attention away from the couple of seconds needed to line up the track and you're away again.

It's not at all far-fetched.
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Big Dave

Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:21 pm

I know Pneumatic arms are good, but moving 8 tonnes of ride car? Might be pushing it a bit.
 
Kaz
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:26 pm

Exactly. I have in my head a system very much like those used on simulators. The track would be able to move about and react to surrounding graphics and then lower to a stage at which it can join the main track and leave.

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Replace the above pod with track, make the mechanics larger and there you have it.

---- Post Info Added ----

"Big Dave" wrote:
I know Pneumatic arms are good, but moving 8 tonnes of ride car? Might be pushing it a bit.


Not in the slightest, this low entry level pneumatic ram can alone lift 10 tons, and it only costs £140!

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This mid range ram can lift 20!

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Last edited by Kaz on Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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shawnoc
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:27 pm

Im still thinking Hydraulic lift, that is also very controlled and and adaptable!
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Big Dave

Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:41 pm

Hmmmm, Im not convinced. Most motion simulators are nothing more than fibreglass shells and often have 20 or so passengers. I know hydraulics are strong, look ant enterprise for example, but also look at which the speed it travels. Quick movements via hydraulic systems can only move small loads. Pneumatics are quicker but yet again the air compresses and gives a varying amount of movement depending on the load. Rita is hydraulic and moves fast, but only because of the actual release part not needing to be controlled. The system builds up pressure and then releases its valves to allow oil to flow to the motors. When the tanks are almost empty, the system shuts the valves and starts to build up pressure again.

If someone was to create a HUGE motion simulator for the ride then ok maybe it would work and offer a good ride experience (I will give you that), but its just not what I can see happening and I couldnt see it moving about much in such a small place anyways.

Also when adsyrah said robot arm. I thought like a literal robot arm.
 
Kaz
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:48 pm

Hmmmm, Im not convinced. Most motion simulators are nothing more than fibreglass shells and often have 20 or so passengers


Oh for Christ's sake, common now... hydraulics are used to lift the bloody space shuttle. If you think they are unable to move 30 or so people over a distance of 5 meters or so I don't know what you are smoking. Anyway, I really can't be asked to keep running round in circles.
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Big Dave

Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:59 pm

Grrrrr you fail to see my point. Hydraulics are strong yes (we agree dont we?), but look at the speed they move at. Hydraulic oil is very hard to compress and therefore is limited to the speed of the pump. The heavier something is or the further you want to move it, the bigger the hydraulic ram is needed. Therefore needing more oil and therefore either taking longer to move or a bigger pump. Either way it is a slow system, Rita only works due to the fact the oil is pushed up against nitrogen which can compress. Pneumatics are good but look at my previous post to see their downside.

A huge motion simulator can be made via hydraulics. It would have to be huge and I could seeing it being really slow. In addition the movement would be restricted due to the size of the machine and length of the ride car.

So please stop trying to prove me wrong when I actually agreeing that hydraulics could lift a massive weight. All Im saying is that its far from practical to use hydraulics in this manner, nor can I see then using any form of motion simulator to move a train around a predefined area.
 
Kaz
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:15 am

Click

4 sets of these connected to one section of track, done.
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Coasternut
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:27 am

As has been previously mentioned, Tower of Terror is clearly the kind of system to be looking at here. An entirely powered and controlled 'drop' is perfectly plausible for SW6 and I think could easily be transferred to a coaster. Anyone who has ridden any of the versions of ToT will know that the ride programme delivers small and forceful drops that could easily fit within the 25-30ft confines of the SW6 ride building. The technology already exists and all this talk of hydraulics is frankly irrelevant! I suppose it is more a matter of cost. I for one would be very happy with a Tower of Terror style mini-elevator section...
 
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zs chris
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:34 am

This may be totally irrelevant, but we use shutoff valves in our hydraulic systems combination with pneumatics on our aircraft to create a near instant removal of all hydraulic fluid in our rams/systems (to prevent loss of too much oil) we also use air/oil olios, a mix of the good qualities of both pneumatics and hydraulics characteristics to instantly drop any ram in use.. Sooo using the conventional hydraulic system in reverse (removing all pressure) if im reading this right, has the ability to instantly create a drop if needed.. Hope this helps :)
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King Sykes
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:06 pm

I know in the planning permission it said it would have hydraulics, and chances are, this will probably be in the special section.

I was thinking though, if it was a drop, Intamin would use LSM technology, like in there drop towers, they can drop a platform under free-fall safely, its rare it would malfunction because it decelerates under magnetism?

I can't see Intamin using pneumatics, they haven't used it before.
There good with Hydraulics, only there usually used to accelerate things rather than decelerate, although I think im missing the point that people are pointing towards hydraulic pistons?

If magnets can safely decelerate a 9 tonne train travelling at 120mph I think it could handle it?
 
Big Dave

Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:50 pm

Yeah but you still wouldnt be able to truely drop freefall. There just isnt enough height. To be fair I cannot see any drop and I think the hydraulic system used is more likely to be an hydraulic lift, which when you think intamin do an hydraulic cable lift hill, isnt much of a surprise.
 
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:09 pm

"Big Dave" wrote:
Yeah but you still wouldnt be able to truely drop freefall.

I don't think anyone's talking about a true freefall drop. All that would be needed is a fast-ish (and fully controlled) descent, accompanied with various lighting and special effects to give the impression of falling further, faster.
 
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El Patricko
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:01 pm

Again as much as i would like it to be a section of track dropping (due to the prospect of a launch after) it doesn't seem the best option. It's like having a lift hill to the lowest point of track, and then using more power to launch it as all potential energy is lost in the drop.

The helix back to the station is very large, which is partially due to the backward nature of the system , but also must have a bearing on the speed the train returns to the station (granted the supports are not buttressed). Im trying to say that it would be cheaper to have one piece of equipment to do both jobs rather than two ala tilt the train and let er rip rather than "drop" a section of track, then launch it back to the station.

The mention of pneumatics in my last post was to do with a similar system to detonator: pushing the object in the direction it wants to go, down the tilted track.

Should get some pictures friday courtesy of somebody i know will be there.
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hawkeye
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Re: SW6 Ride Discussion

Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:17 pm

i was thinking that the track could drop using pneumatics or Hydraulics to do a controlled drop. Then when it comes to a stop instead of being flat it could be on a tilt so you would not need a launch to get the train to the helix

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