I wonder what we would have had then If this wasn't the first concept. As mentioned somewhere else, B&M and Gerstlauer were seen wondering around the site last year so a competition may have been in place between those two. What would be nice is if they were to show the plans for both rides to see what we could have been getting, maybe even the enthusiasts could have chosen which ride was to go in. I suppose that maybe the reality is that this could be SW8.

I remember hearing John Wardley say that they were trying to do a medium development inside the BH tent for 2012, but obviously this has changed when they decided to go for Nemesis - Sub-Terra instead of doing something with the BH Tent. Also the New Ride on the site would have changed this also.

I wonder if there was a competition, would they have been asked to plan for the site we are seeing used now or were they allowed to choose their own site? Who knows......

Two pages already for a ride which won't be built until at least 2016. Wow.

Strange how they said BH would be 2012, and if not after SW7, but has turned out to actually be SW7!

If nothing happens to the flume site towards the end of 2013 i guess that will be the next location for an sw project. But for a change it should be a top water ride than just a coaster or a water coaster. There is a huge amount of land there and a very old ride is just sitting on it all. Id expect something on par or better than valhalla if it is a water ride as that is the benchmark in the uk.

seanyboyuk wrote:

If nothing happens to the flume site towards the end of 2013 i guess that will be the next location for an sw project. But for a change it should be a top water ride than just a coaster or a water coaster. There is a huge amount of land there and a very old ride is just sitting on it all. Id expect something on par or better than valhalla if it is a water ride as that is the benchmark in the uk.

I think we can be pretty sure than The Flume removal would be to make way for a large scale family water attraction.

Long time reader, first time poster here...

I think its great to speculate about the future of Altons rides, but in all honesty, what is left for B&M to prototype, surely they're coming to close to ticking off everything you can do with track and train?
Possibly my lack of creativity or knowledge, ahh well 

Every time I see that, another part of me dies.

What if the Wright brothers had though "There's nothing left to do, let's just stick to making bikes"?

There is always something new to do, that's why certain lucky people are paid quite well to think of those things.

I had no intention of inflicting death! 

I just hope to be proved wrong in the future, as many times as possible!

Just to make a point, it seems that the 2012 "Sub-Terra" attraction was potentially going to be in the Black-Hole tent. There is some open discussion that "The greatest ride ever" campaign tipped the balance in having the ride around Nemesis (i doubt that this was completely the case but it definitely seems to have opened up the potential of Nemesis's popularity.

The rumors have been strong since early 2011 that SW7 was in FV and was a B&M, then around scarfest rumors changed as it became known "Ents" has been asked to vacate the tent that they then used as storage. The fact that theming plans where not ready for submission suggests that the plans had to be changed relatively late on and what was SW7 is not what we are getting.

I think that there are limits to things. Lets face it, most "new" ideas are just reworks of old ones. This doesn't stop them from being important though and when you look at it, any coaster is a rework of the original coasters way back.

I can see there still being two races so to speak. The fight for the tallest/fastest and the battle for the most strange and sensational idea. Alton Towers cannot compete in the tallest and fastest, but they do have a great track record of creating world's first rides.


SW8 is most likely to keep in with this idea. Of creating something that creates a unique sensation either through a worlds first element or by creating an immersive area that really impresses. Alton at present doesn't have an area that really stands out, but given the right ride and a decent budget, we know that Merlin are more than capable of creating such experiences.

If the FV SW7 was a wingrider, I think it is best they have left it a few years for technology to develop and better The Swarm. It doesn't have to have a world's first element... just world's best!

Dormiens-Dave wrote:

The fact that theming plans where not ready for submission suggests that the plans had to be changed relatively late on and what was SW7 is not what we are getting.

I'm a bit sceptical on that, as the submitted plans were specific to the landscape profile of the Black Hole site, and a different manufacturer was contracted to produce plans for a custom fit coaster. If it was a rush job towards the end of 2011 then none of the plans would have been prepared, and the theme concept would have been perhaps the easiest part of the project to produce. It's more likely to me the theme was held back so that planning consent would focus on the coaster primarily

I imagine the BH coaster was planned alongside the FV coaster, as they would typically have concepts for various new attractions being planned. But something propelled this ahead of SW7

whilst I agree with you're logic there Satch, I personally think the plans for SW7 were very rushed. You only have to look at the way in which they were submitted. I looked back over the planning records, and I'm quite confident AT have never submitted plans in two lots before. looks like they got the track layout and details from the manufacturer, slapped a building over the station, marked out where theming was going to go, and then jammed it in the post box. even the revised plans they submitted don't have much by way of detail for proposed landscaping.

which by your logic Satch, actually proves that it was rushed

Satch wrote:

I'm a bit sceptical on that, as the submitted plans were specific to the landscape profile of the Black Hole site, and a different manufacturer was contracted to produce plans for a custom fit coaster. If it was a rush job towards the end of 2011 then none of the plans would have been prepared, and the theme concept would have been perhaps the easiest part of the project to produce. It's more likely to me the theme was held back so that planning consent would focus on the coaster primarily

I imagine the BH coaster was planned alongside the FV coaster, as they would typically have concepts for various new attractions being planned. But something propelled this ahead of SW7

But planning consent isn't actually required for the rollercoaster as it fits within the GDO. Its the buildings that are the problem and no building is going to get planning consent without a detail of the finishes. Also no part of the plans have been consented so focusing on the rollercoaster and building size would be illogical as they clearly haven't done that and the planning officers work with towers before the plans are submitted so they will have been well aware of what was coming before the official application hit their desks.

Its known that the plans changed around late summer i imagine they had to go through a few designs before settling on the EF we have got hence the delay as theming plans couldn't be created until the coaster design was finalised due to its proximity to the ride.

Anyway this is veering towards SW7 discussion

Fair point, although if it fits within GDO land, why do the buildings need consent?

Just a thought as well, if SW7 plans were put on hiatus and these as we know them rolled out, why didn't they postpone the project until 2014 to finalise concepts rather than a rush job?

Satch wrote:

Fair point, although if it fits within GDO land, why do the buildings need consent?

Just a thought as well, if SW7 plans were put on hiatus and these as we know them rolled out, why didn't they postpone the project until 2014 to finalise concepts rather than a rush job?

The buildings were taller than the GDO allows, therefore the planning application.

im just hoping for a cross valley woody!

If I remember rightly, weren't there signs up at The Flume at some point in 2011 / 2012 stating that an incoming Secret Weapon was being developed and threatened the Flume's very existence? But then, they completely disappeared and we got the notification of Black Hole's replacement instead...

Could it be that the real plans for SW7 were for a replacement for The Flume but had to be leap-frogged in favour of the BH replacement instead (Much like, as already stated, how Oblivion leap-frogged Air)? Would also fit in with the MTDP stating that the Flume is coming to the end of it's life...

daboywunda wrote:

If I remember rightly, weren't there signs up at The Flume at some point in 2011 / 2012 stating that an incoming Secret Weapon was being developed and threatened the Flume's very existence? But then, they completely disappeared and we got the notification of Black Hole's replacement instead...

Could it be that the real plans for SW7 were for a replacement for The Flume but had to be leap-frogged in favour of the BH replacement instead (Much like, as already stated, how Oblivion leap-frogged Air)? Would also fit in with the MTDP stating that the Flume is coming to the end of it's life...

Good point but the posters about The Flume's day's were over or whatever was just a marketing stunt to trick enthusiasts like ourselves.

Or was it? It could be a double bluff...

Either that or a spectacular gaffe!! Getting to the point of starting marketing and then pulling the plans last minute..

Would be like Thorpe planning something absolutely massive for 2013, but with all the fanboy's attention on Alton, they can work on the project... Wishful thinking! lol

daboywunda wrote:

Would be like Thorpe planning something absolutely massive for 2013, but with all the fanboy's attention on Alton, they can work on the project... Wishful thinking! lol

Yes Thorpe have brought a tin of paint for Colossus, but I don't think 2 litres will cover it.