UK theme parks from another point of view!

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Dormiens-Dave

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:48 am

Im not sure on a reason though closing these two rides would save around £100,000 just on staff before you factor in power and maintenance. If you have to clear some operating costs then its not insignificant.

As for posting on the facebook wall, its been done in the past and been successful in getting merlin to change some bad ideas HOWEVER in this case without knowing the reason for the SBNO (and its official status) i think its premature. Maybe H&S have required them to use the submission access point for construction... who knows. If its a choice between a new coaster and SBNO of subs and ents its an easy choice. However i think this does highlight how poor Alton Towers support thrill flats are in numbers that one construction site cuts the number by 2 thirds.
 
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mrbrightside
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Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:53 am

I suppose what may have swayed this decision is the opening of Sub Terra. With the new ride - people will be flocking to FV and neglecting X Sector further. Families equally will be spending more time in Cloud Cuckoo because of Ice Age 4D and therefore maybe not wanting to wander down to Ents.

It [i]would[i] be worse if there weren't two new attractions opening - but it is a crying shame that for the season we have 2 in, 2 out (even if the outs are only temporary).


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Tom G
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:09 am

My calculation for a loss of three seasonal staff would be a saving of less than £50,000?
 
AstroDan

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:20 am

Remember, there are technical services jobs, relief staff and ongoing parts/maintenance which also cost money.

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djtintin1
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:37 am

AstroDan wrote:
From TT News, today:

Several rumours have been circulating in recent weeks that Alton Towers have taken the decision to close the Enterprise and Submission rides, found in the parks X Sector, for the duration of the 2012 season. These rumours, in addition to the absence of both rides on the parks main 'Fastrack' page, have led TowersTimes to believe they will indeed face closure.

The rides, which provide support for headline attraction Oblivion, boost the thrill ride line up at the theme park and are two of only four rides in the park which truly go "upside down". Although Enterprise is one of the parks oldest residents, the ride is actually found at many theme parks, including Thorpe Park in Surrey. Submission, which was new for the 2001 season, is found less commonly and in recent years has only ever operated one arm of the available two.

Both rides offer height restrictions less than all the other thrill rides in the park, with Submission suitable for those over 1.2metres tall and Enterprise just 0.9metres. Ripsaw and Nemesis, the parks other true 'looping' attractions, are both for those 1.4metres and over only.

Taking into account the current closure of the Beastie rollercoaster, this means that there will be three standing attractions at the theme park out of service for the 2012 season.

TowersTimes is currently unaware of the reasons why the rides are being closed, although it is not believed it is due to the development of the SW7 rollercoaster for 2013, which is in a different part of X Sector.

With rising gate prices and the hope for rising attendance at the theme park, it remains to be seen whether closed thrill rides will have an impact on guest satisfation during 2012.


Discuss.



I have just spoken with several officials at Alton Towers and they have told me, the rides are not closing nor is there any plans to. On the matter of these being Fastrack these rides have never been on Fastrack, this too was confirmed by Towers. I have just come off this telephone convo with them this minute.

I dont think its fair people start posting Unofficial news like this until it is publicly announced by AT. Scaremongering is not good for the park.
 
Dormiens-Dave

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:41 am

err did you speak to the call centre?

They are quite famous for not getting information until the last minute, they didn't even know about the new steak resteraunt in ATH on the day it opened.

As said TowersTimes doesn't post anything until we are reasonably confident about the source.
 
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djtintin1
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:43 am

Dormiens-Dave wrote:
err did you speak to the call centre?

They are quite famous for not getting information until the last minute, they didn't even know about the new steak resteraunt in ATH on the day it opened.

As said TowersTimes doesn't post anything until we are reasonably confident about the source.


No I spoke with a manager of whom I have known for years within Towers. Its not in their interest to close rides like this. When i call Towers i dont call the number you guys use, I have a direct number.

If this is official news then kindly state your source.
 
jb19852
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:46 am

The plot thickens..........

I seriously think a large amount of over reaction is happening here.  Lets think. A new ride is to be built, and there is an access road behind ent/submission.  I think it clear this is due to access for the new ride rather than cost cutting, etc.
 
Dormiens-Dave

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:49 am

I dont particularly call Alton Towers so not sure what you meant by "number you guys use"

As for the source(s) if it was revealed they would then be at risk of losing their(s) job, i'm sure your also just as unlikely to name your source. Just saying "manager" isn't impressive as lots of people come on TT saying they know management who are often trolling.
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Big Dave

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:54 am

Either way this topic needs to take a chill pill. We dont know the exact ins and outs yet. Best to wait until the park release something.

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djtintin1
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:56 am

Dormiens-Dave wrote:
I dont particularly call Alton Towers so not sure what you meant by "number you guys use"

As for the source(s) if it was revealed they would then be at risk of losing their(s) job, i'm sure your also just as unlikely to name your source. Just saying "manager" isn't impressive as lots of people come on TT saying they know management who are often trolling.


Well if you must know my contact is Simon Doorbar, i also have contacts within Merlin HQ in Poole due to my job anyhow. Where is the benefit for them to just have 1 ride operating.
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:00 am

I can imagine them being closed for stuff like track construction during sept/oct. Maybe for black hole removal at beginning of year. But other than that, i imagine they'll be open.

Think its a bit stupid basing it purely on the website fastrack details - the website is well known for forgetting to add names, spell correctly, have the correct details.

As for staffing - It doesn't cost more than £50k. That's for 4 staff (one relief there). Maintenance staffing won't make any difference - same amount of staff, just used on different rides more often.
 
Dormiens-Dave

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:02 am

Access to SW7 construction site from the Submission access gate?

Just been confirmed by Alton Towers

Hi Lewis - Whilst the footprint of the proposed new ride for 2013 does not incorporate the existing attractions – Enterprise and Submission – the building and development process will be substantially simplified by closing these two rides during the 2012 season to allow ground works to commence out of the public area. Oblivion and the rest of X Sector, including the brand new Fried Chicken Company restaurant, will remain open as usual. We apologise if this is dissapointing to you but we hope you understand and are looking forward to the new attractions!


From Alton Towers Facebook page
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
BIan
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:22 am

Nice to get the confirmation.  I am going to take them on their word for the reason of closing these two rides, but I don't think it would be that difficult or expensive to move them somewhere else, so I am still a little suspicious if there could be an alternative motives for this.

Where the Ug Swingers used to go seems like a good location for enterprise maybe?  Not sure where you could put Submission TBH.

I think the bigger question is, with the ages of these two rides, are they going to work after 18 months of not being used, and how much of the 2013 Rollercoaster budget is going to be allocated to them.

Ian
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:24 am

Dormiens-Dave wrote:
Access to SW7 construction site from the Submission access gate?

Just been confirmed by Alton Towers

Hi Lewis - Whilst the footprint of the proposed new ride for 2013 does not incorporate the existing attractions – Enterprise and Submission – the building and development process will be substantially simplified by closing these two rides during the 2012 season to allow ground works to commence out of the public area. Oblivion and the rest of X Sector, including the brand new Fried Chicken Company restaurant, will remain open as usual. We apologise if this is dissapointing to you but we hope you understand and are looking forward to the new attractions!


From Alton Towers Facebook page


Well you have just had a different email to the response i just received, in my email from them they state: "We cannot confirm at this time as to what rides will be closed, as it stands all the rides in X-Sector shall remain open."
 
Craig

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:33 am

You can see the full post on their Facebook Page

TT News Article below:

In response to a Facebook post on their fanpage, Alton Towers have just confirmed that X Sector flat rides Submission and Enterprise will not operate during the 2012 season.  According to the post, the closure will allow ground works to commence away from the public in preparation for the proposed new coaster for 2013.

The post from Alton Towers reads:

"Whilst the footprint of the proposed new ride for 2013 does not incorporate the existing attractions – Enterprise and Submission – the building and development process will be substantially simplified by closing these two rides during the 2012 season to allow ground works to commence out of the public area. Oblivion and the rest of X Sector, including the brand new Fried Chicken Company restaurant, will remain open as usual. We apologise if this is dissapointing to you but we hope you understand and are looking forward to the new attractions!"

It's currently not known whether the closure will result in a refurbishment of the two rides in preparation for the opening of the proposed new 'Secret Weapon' coaster on the site of former attraction The Black Hole.
 
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mrbrightside
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:53 am

djtintin1 wrote:
Dormiens-Dave wrote:
Access to SW7 construction site from the Submission access gate?

Just been confirmed by Alton Towers

Hi Lewis - Whilst the footprint of the proposed new ride for 2013 does not incorporate the existing attractions – Enterprise and Submission – the building and development process will be substantially simplified by closing these two rides during the 2012 season to allow ground works to commence out of the public area. Oblivion and the rest of X Sector, including the brand new Fried Chicken Company restaurant, will remain open as usual. We apologise if this is dissapointing to you but we hope you understand and are looking forward to the new attractions!


From Alton Towers Facebook page


Well you have just had a different email to the response i just received, in my email from them they state: "We cannot confirm at this time as to what rides will be closed, as it stands all the rides in X-Sector shall remain open."
Which proves that half the time the park can't find their arse with their own hands...

Lack of communication between central call centre and the social media guys FTL.
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Mattchu_19
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:12 pm

IanBassi wrote:
Nice to get the confirmation.  I am going to take them on their word for the reason of closing these two rides, but I don't think it would be that difficult or expensive to move them somewhere else, so I am still a little suspicious if there could be an alternative motives for this.

Where the Ug Swingers used to go seems like a good location for enterprise maybe?  Not sure where you could put Submission TBH.

I think the bigger question is, with the ages of these two rides, are they going to work after 18 months of not being used, and how much of the 2013 Rollercoaster budget is going to be allocated to them.

Ian


If i was Alton then i wouldn't be looking at moving these two rides or even just one for the 2012 season. The cost of relocating it for a year is not worth it! I think the right move is close them for a year, hopefully spend a little money on them and then reopen them in 2013 with the new ride. Relocating it for just one season would be a huge cost to Alton. Also if they moved them somewhere else for good and didn't bring them back for 2013 then the area would be missing flat rides and wouldn't look complete like the Dark Forest. With such a big attraction opening in 2013 Alton will want the area to cope with the increase in guest and also will want the area to look complete.

I do hope though that some money does get spent on them so when they open SW7 the whole area will look its best :)

Matt
 
Moley

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:26 pm

So about those Merlin penny pinching conspiracies...
 
Morgano
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:29 pm

Image

I think it's clear that construction access will block off submission and enterprise. See my attached image for more information related to access:

Access via the green arrows allows oblivion to stay active, access via the red arrows closes a significantly larger portion of X-Sector including oblivion.

It's impossible to keep enterprise and submission operating if construction access is via the green arrows. It's not down to budget but continual closure of both rides will ensure no one is disappointed due to mid season closures. It also stops people seeing the rides online then arriving at the park to see them closed when construction starts.

Closure of these rides will also offer the opportunity to spruce up a larger portion of X-Sector prior to closed season.

BTW just because the plans show Submission and Enterprise it doesn't mean these rides cannot be removed prior to 2013. The plans represent the current area with the ride and added elements not the area as it will look in 2013.
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