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DiogoJ42

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:37 pm

Morgano wrote:
Closure of these rides will also offer the opportunity to spruce up a larger portion of X-Sector prior to closed season.


They won't though. One of the documents submitted about the colour and finish of SW7 said it will be (not the exact words) "faded gray and dirty concrete to match the rest of X Sector" :| Alton seem to think rides look good when they are left to rot :roll:
 
Craig

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:38 pm

Additional statement from Alton Towers:

Alton Towers Resort has submitted plans for a world-first new attraction to open in time for the 2013 season.
The steel rollercoaster will be constructed in the X-Sector area of the Theme Park, replacing the Black Hole which was decommissioned in 2005.  Whilst the footprint of the finished ride does not incorporate the existing attractions – Enterprise and Submission – the building and development process will be substantially simplified by closing these two rides during the 2012 season to allow ground works to commence out of the public area.  Oblivion and the rest of X Sector, including the brand new Fried Chicken Company restaurant, will remain open as usual.

We do of course have two amazing new attractions for the 2012 season – Nemesis Sub:Terra in Forbidden Valley is a psychologically and physically thrilling experience, set in a dark, intense underground setting and based around the back-story of the original Nemesis attraction, which opened in 1994. Promising to be one of the Resort’s most terrifying attractions, Nemesis Sub:Terra takes guests down into the deepest, darkest location of the theme park for the experience of a lifetime. At the other end of the scale is Ice Age– the 4-D Experience in Cloud Cuckoo Land, which promises to be the coolest attraction of the year.  Opening on 24th March it combines 3-D footage with an exhilarating array of synchronized physical effects!
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:04 pm

dan_pmbo wrote:
I cant help but have a small snigger well quite a big one actually at 3 possible SBNO rides at awful flowers after all the flack BPB got over it due to budget cuts a few years back. axing 3 rides and putting up prices here there and everywhere is always going to leave a sour taste in the mouth for the paying public. Not good times. :-)


There are major differences. Submission & Enterprise will open next year. Where as Trauma Towers, Space invader, Noah's Ark & Gold Mine all closed without so much as a word from the park. They've also sold Bling which means the line-up of rides at the Pleasure Beach is dropping year upon year. Even though these two rides are SBNO for a year it's to make way for something Mandy could only dream of. Then there's the other point of Alton opening two new attractions this year to compensate.

All in all Alton's SBNO rides are for a valid reason and only for a year, where as the PBB at this rate will have none left. It'll be £32 for The Big One and giant garden.  :)
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:29 pm

Spike wrote:
dan_pmbo wrote:
I cant help but have a small snigger well quite a big one actually at 3 possible SBNO rides at awful flowers after all the flack BPB got over it due to budget cuts a few years back. axing 3 rides and putting up prices here there and everywhere is always going to leave a sour taste in the mouth for the paying public. Not good times. :-)


There are major differences. Submission & Enterprise will open next year. Where as Trauma Towers, Space invader, Noah's Ark & Gold Mine all closed without so much as a word from the park. They've also sold Bling which means the line-up of rides at the Pleasure Beach is dropping year upon year. Even though these two rides are SBNO for a year it's to make way for something Mandy could only dream of. Then there's the other point of Alton opening two new attractions this year to compensate.

All in all Alton's SBNO rides are for a valid reason and only for a year, where as the PBB at this rate will have none left. It'll be £32 for The Big One and giant garden.  :)


One new attraction - let's not forget there was already a live show in the Cloud Cuckoo Land Theatre! and the Beastie is still sat there.
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:47 pm

Just because Alton Towers have said it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. I think they needed to make some cost savings, and saw Enterprise and Submission as convenient because they can market it as SW7 construction. :)
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:03 pm

siralgenon wrote:
One new attraction - let's not forget there was already a live show in the Cloud Cuckoo Land Theatre! and the Beastie is still sat there.


It is a new attraction :? This isn't a Sonic Spinball affair, this is a brand new attraction in place of a show. So if anything you could say there's 2 SBNO rides & the removal of a show. But we are get TWO new attractions, not one and a re-theme.
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:13 pm

I genuinely cannot see why this is such an issue in the middle of January!!
Why on earth would Alton Towers make an announcement about this in the middle of January!!

I really don't even see why it's that much of an issue at all. If they are to be closed all season, I assume they will not be featured on the park map (which is not available in the middle of January). Therefore anybody visiting and paying up to £40 will not be cheated out of riding them, as they will not be featured in the line up. They will probably be hidden behind a large construction fence and may only be visible from Oblivion.

There are also two new attractions in 2012 which will more than make up for the lack of throughput of these tiny rides, which in all honesty have only been complained about on this forum for the past few years!

The whole fuss about this is baffling me  :)
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:19 pm

Dylan wrote:
If they are to be closed all season, I assume they will not be featured on the park map (which is not available in the middle of January). Therefore anybody visiting and paying up to £40 will not be cheated out of riding them, as they will not be featured in the line up.


Not that anybody has made the decision to visit Alton Towers in the last decade with the existence of Submission and Enterprise as a major contributing factor! :P
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:22 pm

Sam wrote:
Dylan wrote:
If they are to be closed all season, I assume they will not be featured on the park map (which is not available in the middle of January). Therefore anybody visiting and paying up to £40 will not be cheated out of riding them, as they will not be featured in the line up.


Not that anybody has made the decision to visit Alton Towers in the last decade with the existence of Submission and Enterprise as a major contributing factor! :P


EXACTLY!!!!!
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:25 pm

Navex wrote:
Alton Towers is a massive company who serve thousands of people a year, these people should be made aware that two attractions are going to be closed, but two new attractions are opening to compensate.


Which they may have intended to do, given the chance. :)
 
Craig

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:32 pm

Navex wrote:
They did, by removing them from the fastrack pages. What a way to break the news!  :hano:


I think it's worth considering things sensibly here.  Things are just getting back into swing after a long Christmas break.  There's marketing going on for 2012 for Sub Terra along with Ice Age, so things are very very busy.  Things are bound to be updated bit by bit, and it wasn't solely the removal from the Fastrack page that resulted in the story on TowersTimes.  Rumours had been going round for some time in the background from a number of sources that things were happening.

The only reason this ended up being officially announced today is due to the story breaking on here last night.  It probably isn't necessarily how the park wanted to announce it, and why would they when they have two new additions to concentrate on at the same time!  In reality, the matter of how this story broke is neither here nor there, there's far more important things to discuss such as the impact on the area over this season, and what will happen in 2013 as a result.
Last edited by Craig on Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:38 pm

Navex wrote:
I would also find it silly to announce the closure of the two attractions in January. But that doesn't mean for them to go and remove the two rides from the fastrack list where enthusiasts can find out about it and have us standing where we are right now!


How many enthusiasts buy fastracks? :P

Navex wrote:
Alton Towers is a massive company who serve thousands Millions  :P of people a year, these people should be made aware that two attractions are going to be closed, but two new attractions are opening to compensate.


It's January! Give them a chance!  :lol:

Also, I don't think it's been mentioned yet. In the interest of guests being "cheated" there are signs as you leave the Monorail telling you which rides are going to be closed before you even pay. :roll:

I agree with Dylan the reaction to these closures is just silly really. We know by the plans that there is going to be an access site built behind the Black Hole tent and behind SW7's station, but in order to remove the Black Hole tent easily the only other route is in front of Submission and Enterprise. There will be large machinery needed to remove the tent & landscape, where do you expect them to put it? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that these rides are closed so there's more room to demolish & build for SW7.

The closure of these rides for a year are not going to affect anyone really. Nobody hardly rides them, the public don't go to Alton just for Submission or Enterprise and I would expect the new map to show they're closed and no doubt be brandishing and sign which says something like "exciting new coaster coming 2013" When people see this I'm sure it will soften the blow that they're closed :P
Last edited by Spike on Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:54 pm

I don't think any Theme Park that operates seasonly is going to shout about this sort of thing.  I think when the time was right, and the 2013 Rollercoaster gets approved, they would of announced it as part of that.  They could still look a little silly if come the end of March they still don't have planning permission for the new ride approved.

Are these two rides going to be missed by most people visiting, a few yes, but most won't until they go on Oblivion, and can see the ride just sat there doing nothing.  Sure, you can put a wall around it, but the track goes behind the two rides.  I just don't think that it gives a good impression to guests.

It is good that they managed to keep Oblivion open, even though part of that track goes through exactly the same area as these two rides, but there is no way to stop guests seeing these rides sat there.

Enterprise can be easily moved, Submission I am not to sure about, But I am sure if the park wanted to, it could relocate these rides for the 2012 season and have them opperational.  The only reason I can think of them not wanting to do this is to save money.

We talk about these two new rides as bringing something new to Alton Towers, and they do.  But the 2012: Nemesis Sub-Terra ride is only replacing Dynamo which has long since gone, and the 3D show is only replacing a Live Stage show.  You then still have Enterprise, Submission, Blackhole Tent, Beastie, and the Ice Skating Tent still standing, in sight of the public from certain locations not being used.

Why keep the rides, and not use them for 18 months to bring them back in 2013,  why not just sell them/scrap them/send them to another park, and use part of the 2013 Rollercoaster to buy one new decent flat ride.  Enterprise is almost 30 years old in 2013, and I will be surprised if that just starts working again after 18 months, and from what I recall, they struggle to get spare parts for Submission, hence why only one arm operates at a time, so again, I doubt after 18 months if this will still be happy working, and even then, I still doubt it will have both arms running at the same time.

I think when companies release press statements, you can not treat them as the whole truth, as with any source of information, you need to look at why they are releasing the information, what is the benefit from releasing it, and how does it go down with the public.


If they had said were closing these rides because they are no longer safe, and we need to take a year to repair them,  its going to put the public off coming to your park because they think the rides are unsafe.

If they had come out and said, hands up, we are a bit short of cash so we are closing two rides for a year, the general public are going to think, do we really want to go there, when they are closing rides to save money.

If however, you have a new ride being built in the same area, it could be a convenient excuse to close two unpopular rides, but turn it in to a positive story by talking about how it is required for the 2013 Rollercoaster.  The only reason I have to doubt they are telling us the full picture is because I think, if they wanted to, they could relocate those rides easily enough, and have them running in 2012.

I guess come Summer time, we will be able to see where the trucks are coming and going from.

Ian
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:55 pm

This is going to make access to X-Sector even more busy, with people walking to submission and enterprise, realising they're closed and walking back again. They could do with a notice at the X-Sector entrance.

With regards to the high entrance fee and 2 rides closed, people don't come to alton towers to ride them no but when they find out they're closed, some time during the day, they're going to feel a little ripped off. I'd imagine park staff will be questioned all year about this.

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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:10 pm

Mi-Nigle wrote:
This is going to make access to X-Sector even more busy, with people walking to submission and enterprise, realising they're closed and walking back again. They could do with a notice at the X-Sector entrance.

With regards to the high entrance fee and 2 rides closed, people don't come to alton towers to ride them no but when they find out they're closed, some time during the day, they're going to feel a little ripped off. I'd imagine park staff will be questioned all year about this.

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The rides won't be on the map, and there will probably be a sign pre park entrance announcing the rides will be unavailable. I can't imagine this will cause major traffic in X Sector, as I'm sure most people head down there to ride Oblivion, which will still be open. They will quickly realise at that point, the other rides are behind a large construction fence, if they missed all the other obvious clues beforehand.

On the assumption that everyone is making about this being a financial issue, that could well be the case. However, they still sit next to a working construction site and if there is constant construction traffic within that area it makes sense just to shut them down (and probably save the running costs).

The cost of moving them elsewhere and creating new queue lines (people would moan about temporary queue lines) would be daft and completely defeat the object unless they were permanent relocations.
 
Dormiens-Dave

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:26 pm

I really think this will be a non-issue soon enough. Its a shame the rides are closed but hey its for one season and hopefully will result in them working fantastically in 2013. I do think it highlights the lack of support flat rides on the park when one construction site can knock the thrill flat % by 2/3rds.

As for the negativity on the forum, TT can only post the facts, the news was likely to break soon and as we said repeatedly we only post these things if we have more than one good source. We cant help how the discussion on the forum goes (joys of free-speech) and i think Alton Towers understand that.

I still think 2012 will be one of the best seasons we have had in a while
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:15 pm

Im not fused and they can place the construction fences here (Red line)
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Plenty of room to bring stuff in and out, people are forgetting the only access road into x-sector is inbetween Submission and Enterprise so in a way, they are closing it off for construction,
It could be worse, they could of closed all of x-sector to do it, would you rather have two flats no many people enjoy closed off? Or the whole area closed off..
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:35 pm

All construction sites need a site entrance for access for plant (diggers, cranes, etc), equipment, deliveries and materials! Seen as the only access to X-sector is behind the these two rides and in order to get to the proposed site vehicles will have to pass around them and in front of them they have to shut that area/rides for health and safety. Cant have people wondering in front of construction vehicles during the day! By shutting the bottom of X-sector they can sort equipment near the site and work during the day!

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AstroDan

Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:37 pm

I am delighted that Alton Towers have confirmed this news, following our news story last night.

Although I am still not 100% convinced it is solely for SW7 work (mainly because I believe that Enterprise was in the middle of quite a major refurbishment ready for 2012), it would appear that the closure of these two rides will make it simpler for them to get in/out of the construction area.

If I remember, with Saw: The Ride, was't site access past Samurai, which remained open? It just meant that ocasionally the park had to cordon areas off for access  - which if Thorpe can do, well... anyone can! I am sure Alton could have come up with ways to maintain their ride line up (especially as stated, the height restrictions on both rides are very modest), but they have decided against it.

In 2008, Alton Towers had three "upside down/thrill" rides for those under 1.4m (Corkscrew, Submission, Enterprise) - for 2012 - it will have none. However, so long as they re-open - totaly refreshed, both arms of Submission working (yes, you can do it!) and potentially plussed in terms of theming, then I doubt anyone will really care come March 2013.

Bring on construction!

:)
Last edited by AstroDan on Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Submission & Enterprise: Closed (SBNO) for 2012

Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:51 pm

Dormiens-Dave wrote:
Access to SW7 construction site from the Submission access gate?

Just been confirmed by Alton Towers

Hi Lewis - Whilst the footprint of the proposed new ride for 2013 does not incorporate the existing attractions – Enterprise and Submission – the building and development process will be substantially simplified by closing these two rides during the 2012 season to allow ground works to commence out of the public area. Oblivion and the rest of X Sector, including the brand new Fried Chicken Company restaurant, will remain open as usual. We apologise if this is dissapointing to you but we hope you understand and are looking forward to the new attractions!


From Alton Towers Facebook page


This reply shows some guts from Alton, not afraid to let out a secret. I see the logical reasoning as was discussed last night was right. I'm not too peeved about this. I'm happy for Alton to open up though. Hopefully Submission will have 2 arms running for 2013. But what I don't get is, surely the early stages would be fine, but meh.
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