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Adz
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:41 pm

They have used water screens and all sorts of projection effects in the past. No reason why they couldn't again.

As long as the stupid cinesphere (Electric Towers) doesn't make a reappearance!
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Dormiens-Dave

Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:16 am

The only issue with peripheral effects like water screens ect is they take up parts of the budget (and significant parts at that). I would rather have a great "fireworks" show (preferably themed though and less of the "Now Thats What I Call Music style) than lose out to a water screen or Tesla coil.

I think this was very obvious at Electric Towers where they spent so much on Teslas and pointless globe things that the fireworks themselves where rather pathetic. If they could get a higher budget from Merlin then fair enough but i wouldn't bet on it. Merlin seem to be rather tight budget wise at the moment.
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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James
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:55 am

I think the only reason effects are not used these days is much to the reason Dave has pointed out above: It's a budget issue.

Obviously in the 90s they had the budget to mix a great set of fireworks in with a decent amount of effects. These days it's clear they only have the budget to do one or the other. It's a shame, yet I suppose Merlin will not provide Alton with more of a budget to provide these effects as they will want to see a reason as to why (or how) these effects could increase revenue more than them just providing an all round more magical experience.

Although after saying that, is that just an excuse? Surly there needs to be more quality than quantity? Alton Towers do have the best setting in the UK to host a 'ultimate' fireworks display. They have the beautiful Towers as a backdrop, a beautiful setting, a beautiful lake. Yet I feel not all of this is being used to it's full advantage. I'm mainly referring the the lake here. There is a PERFECT opportunity to throw in some fire effects, water projects, temporary fountains. Yet they choose not to. Again, with the Towers, get more fireworks shooting off from the Towers themselves! Make the Towers THE centerpiece of the whole show.

Again, as PeteB has pointed out spot on the dot... lack of story telling. The first fireworks show I ever saw at Alton Towers was the 2001 show. I was 9 years old, yet this show remains in my mind to this day. The fire effects, the water effects, the fireworks themselves, the story... pure magic. Fast forward 11 years later and we have been left with something equivalent to any other fireworks display available in the UK. Sure, the Towers back drop is unbeatable. Although the whole fireworks show lacks that extra sparkle, that extra bit of magic they used to have.

To me, it was the stories that made Alton stand out from the crowd. Even in the years of 2004/2005 of Dr Pop Rocket (which was a cheesefest at best) you know you're at Alton Towers, you're taken into the world of Alton Towers, taken into the experience and that is what made Alton Towers fireworks displays the most memorable and magical.

As Pete has put it perfectly. It's not about the fireworks. It's about putting on a show, providing a unique experience, a full theatrical experience. That's what made Alton Towers unique, by not following the crowd, by doing something that you cannot see or experience any where else in the UK. The true meaning of the 'Alton Towers Magic'. 
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:07 pm

They definitely need to bring narrative back to the shows, i just don't want to lose the great fireworks which people who have been to the likes of Disney say are amazing.

Hopefully they will take the opportunity to showcase Sub-Terra at the next show. I do feel though that Ents really don't go in for magic at Towers anymore (and they project manage the fireworks). What with the pop-culture pirate show, refusal to use the Themed Alton Towers Scarefest song in their Towers Street show and removal of Henry Hound they just seem to want to please the lowest common denominator these days.
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:15 pm

I am sorry but Fiestaventura at PA uses few fireworks and more water and projections surely saving money but still looks spectacular! Just saying, yes it does cost a lot of money to install etc but once you have got it, its much cheaper than sending thousands upon thousands of fireworks into the sky. Don't get me wrong I love the fireworks but I would love Alton to have more of a story than just colour in the sky!
Last edited by jackgcse on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:41 pm

I would say that comparing with Disney is a little unfair, and not only for budget reasons.
Disney has a range of songs that not only are instantly recognised as Disney, but they are...instantly recognised!
That's two bases covered in one, Alton has the choice, well known songs or their own.
The one song they have is ITHOTMK, and rightly, they use it!
However, comparing The Ultimate Fireworks 2011 with Wishes at Magic Kingdom, I honestly can't say I enjoyed one more than the other, they were both fantastic displays and completely different! Disney blows both displays out of the water with Hallowishes though, can honestly say it was the best and most magical fireworks display I have ever seen. Great Story, great music, great effects AND more fireworks than you can shake a stick at  :shock:
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:35 pm

Wishes is only a short show and takes place nightly. It is also part and parcel of the attractions in the park - there is nothing special about it for the park because its on every day.

Alton Towers show takes place three times a year only, and lasts 20-25 minutes.

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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:34 pm

Also worth noting that Disney use a proprietary detonation/explosion system for their fireworks, hence why their shows are so well synchronised.  It would also be difficult to justify the expense Disney have gone to for the design of the show, as no doubt this was significant.  There's not much point doing this for an annual 3 show run, as there would be no money left in the budget for the fireworks themselves.
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:09 am

venny911 wrote:
Also worth noting that Disney use a proprietary detonation/explosion system for their fireworks, hence why their shows are so well synchronised.  It would also be difficult to justify the expense Disney have gone to for the design of the show, as no doubt this was significant.  There's not much point doing this for an annual 3 show run, as there would be no money left in the budget for the fireworks themselves.


And that detonation system is a complete waste! The shows are no more well synchronised than any other.

They basically put electronic chips inside the shells which tell the firework when to explode whilest in the air.  The standard method of backtiming fireworks that is used by firework companies throughout the world is more than sufficient for accurate timing.  I believe they can get fireworks to dentonate from within 50ms, but the actual electronic firing systems can be accurate down to 1ms. This is only for aerial shells that burst in the air. At this level no one can really tell if the effect is slightly out of sync.  Ground effects are a different story though and fire instantly, so timing can be precise.

Different display companies also use different timings for their effects.  If you look at Jubilee for example who have done Alton Towers for the past 2 years, their effects always fire just before the musical cue (note).  To see an example of this, look at the opening of 2011 with the Nero section - look at the mines (first effect to fire) or the comets behind the lake that fly left, right, and then vertical during the "are you ready" bit actually appear about 200ms before the musical cue.  The idea is that the audience will "see" the effect as it's musical reference happens, rather than firing ON cue.

Some companies fire ON cue, others can fire up to 300ms before the cue.  It all depends on what they believe makes a good pyromusical.  :)
Last edited by PeteB on Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:21 am

PeteB wrote:
venny911 wrote:
Also worth noting that Disney use a proprietary detonation/explosion system for their fireworks, hence why their shows are so well synchronised.  It would also be difficult to justify the expense Disney have gone to for the design of the show, as no doubt this was significant.  There's not much point doing this for an annual 3 show run, as there would be no money left in the budget for the fireworks themselves.


And that detonation system is a complete waste! The shows are no more well synchronised than any other.

They basically put electronic chips inside the shells which tell the firework when to explode whilest in the air.  The standard method of backtiming fireworks that is used by firework companies throughout the world is more than sufficient for accurate timing.  I believe they can get fireworks to dentonate from within 50ms, but the actual electronic firing systems can be accurate down to 1ms. This is only for aerial shells that burst in the air. At this level no one can really tell if the effect is slightly out of sync.  Ground effects are a different story though and fire instantly, so timing can be precise.

Different display companies also use different timings for their effects.  If you look at Jubilee for example who have done Alton Towers for the past 2 years, their effects always fire just before the musical cue (note).  To see an example of this, look at the opening of 2011 with the Nero section - look at the mines (first effect to fire) or the comets behind the lake that fly left, right, and then vertical during the "are you ready" bit actually appear about 200ms before the musical cue.  The idea is that the audience will "see" the effect as it's musical reference happens, rather than firing ON cue.

Some companies fire ON cue, others can fire up to 300ms before the cue.  It all depends on what they believe makes a good pyromusical.  :)


And on top of that there is the issue of the delay of the soundtrack. With sound taking (approximately) 3ms to travel 1 meter, the accuracy of how we see the sound to trigger will vary significantly depending on your location. This can change so much during a single display, let alone over a 3 night run depending on temperature changes (sound travels faster if it's colder than if it's warmer), and wind direction and speed you will never get an exact sound trigger.
Trying to trigger pyro to 1ms in an outdoor event is (as previously said) very costly for no visible gain.

I think the AT fireworks are a brilliant firework display, and if the can develop the theatrical element and storyline with them they would be even better.
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:05 pm

I dont think Wishes at Magic Kingdom is that good and Alton Towers with the lighting and fireworks blows it out the window. The best ever fireworks show is at Epcot. That wins hands down.
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:08 am

Themeparksandy1981 wrote:
I dont think Wishes at Magic Kingdom is that good and Alton Towers with the lighting and fireworks blows it out the window. The best ever fireworks show is at Epcot. That wins hands down.


Quite agree, Epcot is brilliant but their lights and laser show is almost pointless because the lasers aren't anywhere near bright enough. Even with tons of firework smoke you can hardly see them.
Last edited by PeteB on Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:25 pm

I would recommend for the fireworks parking situation, that parking is free for the main car park however it will be stated that you will get NO Priority, whereas the VIP parking gets complete priority at the end of the night! Mean on the average guest, yes. However if you want/need to make a quick escape the 'pay' extra, is there for you. This idea would also mean that the express parking price would probably rocket to the sort of price of the O2 Arena parking (£25 per car) And yes it is a very steep price, but you are paying for conveinience and comfort!
Don't just judge on my opinion, I am just look at one way going about it, because if the park will struggle anyway with the mass all trying to leave at the same time, they may as well exploit it, especially if there is really nothing else they can do...and hay they sell fastrack so why would they feel bad about letting 'pay' guests leave first!? :)
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:21 pm

bring back the story line to the fire works event could even base it on nemesis sub terror  :lol:
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:44 pm

Alton Towers have today released a short advert for the 2012 firework display, pretty much the same one as last year but with a different voice over:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DppbSjkZY-s

We're led to believe this years show will be another poptastic assault on your ears, and also include some references to the new ride SW7.
 
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:03 pm

PeteB wrote:
We're led to believe this years show will be another poptastic assault on your ears, and also include some references to the new ride SW7.


Not a pop fan then?

Anyway, Towers will always go for a mix of songs for the fireworks. last year included a rock-ish section. covered all types of music to a degree and was inclusive, in my opinion, of what an end of season party is about but with added pyrotechnics. Unfortunately, due to prior commitments, this will be the first year since they restarted I wont be in attendance which is a shame. To also note, this is the earliest they have set up for the fireworks than in previous years. The first night always seems to have less wind which makes the smoke linger, the Saturday night seems to be how they were ment to be whilst on the Sunday night, more seem to launch.
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Re: The "Ultimate" Fireworks 2012

Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:17 pm

Personally this year I'm filled with optimism for the Fireworks event, with all the marketing going on currently within park over SW7, for them to not include a large section relating to such would be a huge mistake, however I have great faith in the parks Entertainment and Lighting Teams.
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