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BowMan
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Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 12:38 pm

Wow!  :shock:
I'm excited for this.  It looks like this will actually scare me now!
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siralgenon
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Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 12:58 pm

When I first heard about the new ending being described as a shipping container, with flashing lights, air pistons and black curtains - I thought it would be crap tbh - But after experiencing the attraction yesterday, I couldn't have been more wrong!

From the moment the contamination squad enter the pitch black elevators with their bloody faces beind gas masks and them shining their flash lights in your face, the whole group are hiding behind each other and screaming.

As you exit the elevators into darkness surrounded by sirens and and warning lights, you enter the 'maze' section through some flaps, under the 'Quarantine' sign.

It is here where, the actors in boiler suits and detox machinery, blast you with air cannons to decontaminate civilians. With shaking floors, air cannons from below, the side and above blasting you, actors appearing from hidden areas and loud bangs coming from all around it really does create a sense of panic and scares most people sh*tless.

From here you wind around a corner surrounded by vents and exit to the baggage area.

A great ending to a now overall scary attraction.
Last edited by siralgenon on Sun May 27, 2012 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AstroDan

Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 1:10 pm

Guys. Try it before jumping to conclusions. We had a chat with the head of park operations, who told us that feedback has been transformed, and tweaks to the ending are to be made.

It really is a lot better, one or two further changes to enhance the narrative at the end and I would say it is the finished article.

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aru
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Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 1:42 pm

I think saying that if the last part is the scary bit then 'why didn't they do that, it would have saved them money' is missing the point! Look at Saw Scare Maze..

We have a really original attraction here which is very advanced for AT's standards! It is like the dungeons meets Scarefest. From watching the exit video it looks like 2.0 is a success.

Give them a break!
 
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garyh
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Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 1:57 pm

The saw maze is closed now except for peak periods though isnt it...?  I wonder how long it will be before the maze at the end of this is without any actors at quieter periods - thats my concern.....
 
Satch

Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 1:58 pm

Saying I'm missing the point suggests you haven't read my point. The brief for the ride wasnt a scare maze. It was never meant to be a scare maze. What it was meant to be hasn't worked, and so the scare maze has been tacked on to the end to provide a completely different product.

As I said, I commend them for being prepared to change it so drastically, but it's not going to cut it for me because I don't enjoy scare mazes. Sorry Dan, I'm not trying to prevent anybody else from enjoying this. It's great that it's finally getting the praise, and I shall go on it when next on park, but to me it just shows how fundamentally flawed the original product was in that they have had to create essentially a whole different concept of experience for it.

As for the story, it still seems incongruous that the exit from what was supposed to be a visitor attraction run by Phalanx is a quarantine area with Phalanx staff so ready to act. But hey.
 
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Nightfall
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Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 2:01 pm

This sounds good to me. I don't know how much has changed from the original ride but the aspects I felt needed altering have had some tweaks. The entrance lift still seems like it needs more realism but this'll probably always be a concern of mine unless they genuinely get it right. The monster raw and addition of glowing lights inside the eggs sounds excellent. If this means you can just about see the eggs in the nest then that should do the job perfectly. I still think the leg ticklers and back pokers could be used in a more interesting way but they function now so that's ok. The countdown I still have doubts over but everything else sounds like an improvement.

Now the addition of a scare maze ending I originally criticised but only because I feared how long this would last for. However from the sound of it I think that even without the actors (excluding those on the lifts) this end section will still add a decent conclusion. The trouble with the lifts before was that the experience just ended at the point where things seemed to be getting interesting. There was no conclusion but now there is. The whole contamination idea just seems like an excuse for actors with gas masks, I’m not fond of it but understand its purpose. The bit that I’m more interested about is the idea that your trying to escape with the creature still around you (I think James summarised it quite well above). In this sense I don’t feel the ending has just been tagged on although I would have done it differently.

I also feel this is much more interesting than a standalone scare maze (which I’ve never liked the idea of). The fact the scare maze is only a small bit at the end also means they’re unlikely to do a Thorpe Park and decide to only open their “year round” scare maze at Halloween :roll:

I'm probably going to wait a bit longer before visiting again to give them a chance to get into their stride. It'll be good to do a direct opening day comparison to the new version without seeing all the changes in-between.
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Satch

Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 2:03 pm

One concern I would hold though, is where has the budget for this come from, particularly as we all know too well how desperate Merlin are to make cuts. There would have been a pot of money held back until the ride was completed, however this wouldve gone to ABC Rides on sign off of the ride mechanism. The ending is not of concern to ABC, and so a different budget would've been needed for this. I can't help thinking that due to the nature of it, it would be from Ents, which possibly means the Scarefest budget would have been dipped into
 
oldgitBEN

Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 2:06 pm

My biggest concern with the whole scare maze ending is the cost.

Alton are constantly trying to save money and Im assuming this will have 4 actors per day, thats going to be quite an expensive addition.
I know the contacts are until November, but that doesnt really mean anything. Or next season when the focus moves to SW7.

Hmmm. I dont trust alton enough to think they will staff it forever.
 
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siralgenon
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Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 2:09 pm

Nightfall wrote:
This sounds good to me. I don't know how much has changed from the original ride but the aspects I felt needed altering have had some tweaks. The entrance lift still seems like it needs more realism but this'll probably always be a concern of mine unless they genuinely get it right. The monster raw and addition of glowing lights inside the eggs sounds excellent. If this means you can just about see the eggs in the nest then that should do the job perfectly. I still think the leg ticklers and back pokers could be used in a more interesting way but they function now so that's ok. The countdown I still have doubts over but everything else sounds like an improvement.

Now the addition of a scare maze ending I originally criticised but only because I feared how long this would last for. However from the sound of it I think that even without the actors (excluding those on the lifts) this end section will still add a decent conclusion. The trouble with the lifts before was that the experience just ended at the point where things seemed to be getting interesting. There was no conclusion but now there is. The whole contamination idea just seems like an excuse for actors with gas masks, I’m not fond of it but understand its purpose. The bit that I’m more interested about is the idea that your trying to escape with the creature still around you (I think James summarised it quite well above). In this sense I don’t feel the ending has just been tagged on although I would have done it differently.

I also feel this is much more interesting than a standalone scare maze (which I’ve never liked the idea of). The fact the scare maze is only a small bit at the end also means they’re unlikely to do a Thorpe Park and decide to only open their “year round” scare maze at Halloween :roll:

I'm probably going to wait a bit longer before visiting again to give them a chance to get into their stride. It'll be good to do a direct opening day comparison to the new version without seeing all the changes in-between.


In the scare maze section the monster is no where near you, it's not in the same room or anything - The air blasts are decontamination sequence.
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mrbrightside
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Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 2:49 pm

What is the use of the mesh fencing within the container then? Is it to create some form of 'maze' or is it simply there to separate the actors from the guests in order to stop them from being able to touch you?

Also... I'm a tall guy, and shipping containers are cramped at the best of times, so, am I in any danger of knocking myself out? Heh...


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Nightfall
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Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 2:56 pm

siralgenon wrote:
Nightfall wrote:
Now the addition of a scare maze ending I originally criticised but only because I feared how long this would last for. However from the sound of it I think that even without the actors (excluding those on the lifts) this end section will still add a decent conclusion. The trouble with the lifts before was that the experience just ended at the point where things seemed to be getting interesting. There was no conclusion but now there is. The whole contamination idea just seems like an excuse for actors with gas masks, I’m not fond of it but understand its purpose. The bit that I’m more interested about is the idea that your trying to escape with the creature still around you (I think James summarised it quite well above). In this sense I don’t feel the ending has just been tagged on although I would have done it differently.


In the scare maze section the monster is no where near you, it's not in the same room or anything - The air blasts are decontamination sequence.


I thought someone said there were banging sounds as if it was nearby and could be about to burst through the walls at you?

If that is the case though then that makes no sense at all. I haven’t personally been decontaminated before but I wasn't under the impression that people jump out and try to scare you while it happens. I was also under the impression that decontamination takes place in clean rooms, not in a corridor with metal fences, strobes, loud bangs and drapes hanging from the ceiling.

Like I said the whole Quarantine idea doesn't make much sense. This is why I think the human actors should take second place to the atmosphere of the escaped monster which is what it sounded like from other reviews.
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Joelio

Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 3:42 pm

Joelio wrote:
Really glad to hear about the improvements, but where's the proper 'scare' in the crypt. Should certainly be the focal point of the attraction and it still seems to be neglected...

Will reserve judgement till i've ridden it, as ever :)


Quoted my own comment to draw attention to it, the main focus of the attraction isn't the exit, its the egg section and the area beneath the egg. I can't help but feel everyone's being dazzled by these new additions (which do sound lovely) and forget the rides main focus is to scare you senseless, during the ride. Its just missing that scare despite how good the post show is... afterall the scaremaze is the post show and should in no way be the attraction's feature.

I am still very thankful for upgrades however despite how disappointed i'm sounding. (and i'm still yet to 'experience' it).
 
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mrbrightside
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Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 3:47 pm

However Joelio, the core experience does apparently seem scarier. There may not be a 'big' scare waiting for you when you drop, but now the added effects are supposedly working it will presumably be a scarier experience. This being due to the breath on your neck, seat speakers, extended pre-existing effects and so on.

I know this still leaves a gap for a huge scare there but it certainly sounds scarier.


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Joelio

Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 3:52 pm

Yeah, it seems to have the effects that you'd expect from day 1 working with new lighting and a longer story prior to the drop. Suppose ou could say my disappointment for want of a better word is more just surprised at that much sort after feature not being included. As i've said though, i'm still really happy they're making the attraction better and better.

Though, if the general public are giving the ride rave reviews these days it can be classed as done for all purposes...
 
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Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 4:02 pm

Yeah, I totally see what you mean. However, I am not actually sure what could have been placed down there that would work as a consistent scare for all 4 sides of the core. Perhaps if the eggs all cracked, or looked like they were about to just before you started to go back up? However, now that all the effects are working (including ones that people didn't even know existed) it will hopefully provide a much richer and claustrophobic experience.


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Joelio

Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 4:09 pm

The much discussed animatronic, even if its just a simple, loosely animated 'pop up' could work. I just find the lack of movement in the crypt makes no real sense... so yeah the main egg has cracked, you drop down further to see more uncracked eggs. On the way up that one cracked egg's inhabitant causes havoc and continues to run rampant. What about those other eggs? They don't really take part in the experience as they're left dormant throughout.
 
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mrbrightside
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Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 4:21 pm

There is a definite gap in the story. Though the way I have always seen it is that the remaining eggs have also cracked hence why you are attacked on the way up (alongside the original monster who presumably followed you down there). They could get away with simple cracking and not even an animatronic in order to convey it better.

In fact, anyone who has been on V2, is there a cracking sound when the lights go off before you are brought back up to the surface? If so, something like that is definitely being missed out on.


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siralgenon
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Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 5:04 pm

mrbrightside wrote:
What is the use of the mesh fencing within the container then? Is it to create some form of 'maze' or is it simply there to separate the actors from the guests in order to stop them from being able to touch you?

Also... I'm a tall guy, and shipping containers are cramped at the best of times, so, am I in any danger of knocking myself out? Heh...


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The mesh fencing only separates the actors from the guests. There is a pathway through the centre of the concourse with a mesh fence down each side with actors  :)

Your perfectly fine height wise, it's only the same as walking through the TH13TEEN shop  :)
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siralgenon
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Re: Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)

Sun May 27, 2012 5:10 pm

Nightfall wrote:
siralgenon wrote:
Nightfall wrote:
Now the addition of a scare maze ending I originally criticised but only because I feared how long this would last for. However from the sound of it I think that even without the actors (excluding those on the lifts) this end section will still add a decent conclusion. The trouble with the lifts before was that the experience just ended at the point where things seemed to be getting interesting. There was no conclusion but now there is. The whole contamination idea just seems like an excuse for actors with gas masks, I’m not fond of it but understand its purpose. The bit that I’m more interested about is the idea that your trying to escape with the creature still around you (I think James summarised it quite well above). In this sense I don’t feel the ending has just been tagged on although I would have done it differently.


In the scare maze section the monster is no where near you, it's not in the same room or anything - The air blasts are decontamination sequence.


I thought someone said there were banging sounds as if it was nearby and could be about to burst through the walls at you?

If that is the case though then that makes no sense at all. I haven’t personally been decontaminated before but I wasn't under the impression that people jump out and try to scare you while it happens. I was also under the impression that decontamination takes place in clean rooms, not in a corridor with metal fences, strobes, loud bangs and drapes hanging from the ceiling.

Like I said the whole Quarantine idea doesn't make much sense. This is why I think the human actors should take second place to the atmosphere of the escaped monster which is what it sounded like from other reviews.


Yes there is banging however I don't think this is supposed to be the monster, the actors are only dressed in boiler suits and gas masks, they aren't Phalanx Operators with guns etc. they aren't trying to defend you from the monster.

As the elevator doors open, an actor burts into the elevator with his flashlight shining it peoples faces, depending on which elevator you are in the longer they do this to clear the pathway of the others. After exiting the elevators turning left, you pass under a sign saying 'Quarantine' while passing though flaps into the 'contamination container' where you have air blasts, actors, strobes and loud banging noises towards the exit.

Hope that clears things up  :)
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