Instant Mix wrote:

I'm sure it must be possible to put in some anti-sound measures. Some sort of fencing in the woods or even some high-tech system to cause destructive interference with microphones to hopefully annihilate the sound completely.

They are so not worth that...

Instant Mix, I take it you are talking about Active noise control (ANC).

Basically emits a sound wave with the same amplitude but with inverted phase (antiphase) to the original sound wave, to form a new third wave, in a process called interference, and effectively cancel each other out.

It is quiet hard to generate the phase cancellation effect, efficiently over an area that would be needed for the roper's problem, and could in fact create a new noise problem itself.

Alton should dismantle the ropers house, place it within the park and make it the new haunted house.

No that's where the new Sanctuary maze is being held 'Ministry of Joy' and all that!  LOL

Quick note guys
As much as I love all the hostility towards the ropers (and I do), can we try and keep discussion in this thread constructive, rather than just plain mean.
if you want to do THAT, by all means create a new (relevant) topic in the dragon bar

edit: In fact, I'll get the ball rolling http://forum.towerstimes.co.uk/the-dragon-bar/a-more-suitable-place-to-b***h-about-the-ropers/

Where is this "40db" figure coming from, that is INCREDIBLY quiet, in fact, I am sitting here in my back room, with the telly on, not very loud and I have a db reader on my phone, and it's hovering between 63-70db

I don't support the Ropers at all, I think they need to grow the hell up, but I just wanna say that I can talk louder than 40db LOL

It's worth noting that decibels is a logarithmic scale.

67db would be around 10 times louder than 47db.

47db is a loud whisper or your fridge running.

However, that noise is also likely the peak, the highest they could record. From the noisiest place in their property.

Whilst it's noticable (although I'd doubt you'd hear it through double glazing) a pretty high portion of people experience louder noise than that from planes, trains and cars, and those don't shut off past 6pm.

In fairness.. I'm no civil engineer, but I AM a sound engineer. Sound (and thus the vibrations caused by rides etc) travel through the ground like a wave (as we all know) however, it depends on how long the wavelength is to know whether the close surrounding area resonates at the same frequency or whether it's further away (ie the Roper's house)... Drop a stone in the pond, the wave will fall below the surface and come up away from the center point, so the park its-self might not experience the vibration but surrounding area can.

On a similar note, when I do sound checks etc for festivals that use massive speakers (think Global Gathering, Creamfields, Reading, V etc), the most common complaint from the surrounding area is the bass sound because the wavelenth and frequency/amplitude is such that it travels with (and sometimes amplified by) the ground due to the natural resonance of the 2 (the wave and the ground)

Not to say that I'm defending the Ropers and their two-faced Hippocratic law suit, but their claim of vibration does have a little basis to it which means that just because the area at the drop of Oblivion or the chicken hut doesn't vibrate, the area outside the park might. The "whomp" as the train enters the hole would suggest that there's energy transference at work.. It has to go some-where... It'll travel along the ground until it's dispersed.

It's possible it's the vibrations more than anything but that seems implausible to me.

Trees are pretty effective at absorbing that sort of thing and I'd be suprised if Oblivion's foundations didn't have huge amounts of dampening built into them to prevent fatigue on the supports and track.

It is nice to see some good discussion on this. and daboywunda comments are a new view on it.  If they are complaining about vibration, cant they have vibration detectors or seismograph in the house and garden, to see the vibration levels.

To keep the reading clean they would have to be out for the day. and to really add to the data set, they could but light bars on to oblivion to log train position linked to reading of vibration at the house.  As this data could then be used to find the point on the ride that gives problem vibration for local house, if there is a problem.

PeteB wrote:

If they loose this case, nothing would make me happier than seeing them stripped of all their assets and put into real financial hardship. It's the least they deserve. There's a much bigger picture here than just Alton Towers loosing a few rides, or even closing down altogether.  It's the effect on the local economy.

I would imagine that most of the local community and even the council will be Alton's side this time around.

However for all my head says this is crazy, they won't win etc I have a gut feeling - and it's always right - that the Ropers are going to win this. Don't know how, don't know why but I just get that feeling. I think we're at the begining of the end here.

D: If they win I'm chaining  myself to oblivion.

Delta79 wrote:

.... they could but light bars on to oblivion to log train position linked to reading of vibration at the house.  As this data could then be used to find the point on the ride that gives problem vibration for local house, if there is a problem.

Yes, that's pretty much how they would do it, once they work out how fast the shock-waves travel through the ground, they can pinpoint the exact moment that the wave is generated. The solution might be as simple as adding in a ground dampener (essentially spring-loaded footers that absorb the shock - as used in city centres that have rail tracks near massive buildings)

Tree's are fantastic at dampening sound (hence why you tend to find music stages at festivals pointing towards them or in an area surrounded on 3 sides by them) but not so effective when dealing with shock-wave dispersion as the wave is using the ground level to travel along with little resistance.

I too agree with PeteB - I believe that the Ropers might be successful in their bid as the current justice system / human rights court / high court seem to act in the interests of the minority, rather than the interests of the bigger picture - choosing to favour the idealistic "no noise" lifestyle rather than accepting that the "pollution" is part and package of a bigger economic staple-house, one which might have even helped the Roper's own business at one point...

Ironic that there's a recession and it's challenging to make money or get a job in rural areas at this time.

Here are my views on the whole thing.

The way I see it the Ropers are just milking it to get money and attention. I think it is in their best interest to not take it to high court, either way they will lose. If they lose the case, they will probably go bankrupt almost instantly, on the other hand, if they win they will be the most hated people in staffordshire,  Also if they win and Alton has to relocate/remove any rides, they will probably make complaints about the noise of them dismantaling / rebuilding the rides.

If they do manage to make the park close altogether then what will happen to the towers, I'm sure they won't want the towers to get practically distroyed by another company and the whole Staffordshire area will lose lots of jobs and get into a right financial state.

btw can someone tell me how removing the "Dont-look-down" will make any difrence to the noise.

If there is a possibility that Oblivion could have to be moved/removed why are Merlin building SW7 in the same area?

Did the Ropers object to the planning permission for SW7 (or Oblivion). Surely if they didn't they don't have a leg to stand on?

From what I remember, the coaster itself didn't need permission for reasons I cannot remember, only the building.

i wonder if they have built sw7 there in x sector to say to these 2 fools up yours to be nice.

The Moon wrote:

From what I remember, the coaster itself didn't need permission for reasons I cannot remember, only the building.

That is correct, the actual track is within the GDO area (General Development Order) which doesn't need further planning permission, and in fact were only shown for "completeness of plans". The station building is also within the GDO area, but exceeds the height permitted within the GDO, so did require the planning permission.

Can the courts really not weigh up the fact that for one, this is one couple complaining, a couple who it has previously been stated, owned a factory that ran 24.7 with constant noise next to residential homes; they own other properties and are hardly at the property near alton towers; alton towers have already done their part and changed aspects and cancelled fireworks etc.

the thing that gets me is millions of tourists flock from all over the UK to come here, they're stopping things like fireworks which tbh, if i lived by alton towers and got to see the fireworks for free id not be arsed.

it seems to me that its more of a "oh we took on alton towers and won" rather than it be because its really affecting their lives.

RANT OVER and i know its off topic im sorry but what i wanted to ask was does anyone know when this next step takes place where they take it to the higher level? is there a date at all?

If oblivion was a bit noisy for them then wait till the smiler fires  up lol. Cant see them moving a 18m ride that's just been built.