UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
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MizzHanza
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:08 pm

Has it been confirmed yet about the poor girl loosing her leg? I'm a bit sick of reading reports jumping to conclusions before anything has been confirmed.

Also I very much doubt The Smiler will be open for the remainder of the season however I do believe it will be back for 2016 - where i shall be in queue without a doubt!
I really love this ride and it will be such a loss for the park if they remove it. They just need to improve it to ensure this never happens again.

My thoughts go out to those affected <3
 
bengutt
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:29 pm

MizzHanza wrote:
Has it been confirmed yet about the poor girl loosing her leg? I'm a bit sick of reading reports jumping to conclusions before anything has been confirmed.

Also I very much doubt The Smiler will be open for the remainder of the season however I do believe it will be back for 2016 - where i shall be in queue without a doubt!
I really love this ride and it will be such a loss for the park if they remove it. They just need to improve it to ensure this never happens again.

My thoughts go out to those affected <3


I've not seen any news coming out of any reliable outlet that has even mentioned the loss of a leg (It's all over the Daily Mail/Mirror and similar "quality" outlets. Sky news at one point were so off the mark, they implied someone had died.
I very much hope all involved make a full and total recovery.

Once the cause(s) for the accident have been located, you'll be able to be 100% confident that this will not happen again on the Smiler. Any lessons learned from this will also be applied to other coasters in the AT and Merlin world and probably beyond.
I too am more than willing to be in the queue when it opens again.
 
missingaa
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:55 pm

The odds of being killed on a ride are the same odds as being killed by shark attack!!!! And you're statistically more likely to die by a falling coconut.

100 times more likely to die from food poisoning.... Don't eat!!!!

150 times more likely to die by falling out of bed.... Don't sleep!!!!

438 times more likely to drown in a bath.... Don't bath!!!

6896 times more likely to die in an accident at work.... Don't work!!!!

Nobody tell my 11 year old son these statistics.... there's all the excuses he needs right there!!!

Unfortunately the source I used for these statistics is not great, and their source is, shall we say, a little out of date. But the point I'm making is still valid!!!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news ... die-282884
 
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smeg_head
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:05 pm

Jevaaaans wrote:
The question I have is are Gerstlauer going to make any announcement about this?


Do Ford make an announcement on every crash involving their cars?

To do so now would be admitting liability. While I'm 100% sure they will be fully cooperative with the safety review unless that investigation reveals the cause to be a design flaw then GH as the designer, not operator of the ride are not the prime focus.
 
Jammydodger
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:37 pm

I could be wrong, because physics aren't my strong point, but if coaster carriages were designed to change shape on impact (I.e with crumple zones) then isn't there more risk of derailment on impact? If the impact reaches the wheels then it could have misaligned them and caused fatal structural damage.

We should be thankful it wasn't two oblivion shuttles slamming in to each other, that would have been far worse. At least gersts carriages are somewhat nimble compared to most.
 
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sw7nutter
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:48 pm

Oblivion carriages are far more dense and involve much more steel. So while they would have more momentum they would also be far better at absorbing an impact as the energy would be dispersed all over the train, helped by the fact they have a larger surface area.
For trains to be designed with crumple zones would be rather unnecessary. They may take the energy out of an impact but an impact is so rare especially at high speeds. The trains already come with rubber bumpers designed to make sure trains cant be damaged at low speed impacts. If crumple zones where added however the likely hood of the ride falling off the rails would be the same as before if designed correctly.
 
100%goals&cash
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:56 pm

Jammydodger wrote:
I could be wrong, because physics aren't my strong point, but if coaster carriages were designed to change shape on impact (I.e with crumple zones) then isn't there more risk of derailment on impact? If the impact reaches the wheels then it could have misaligned them and caused fatal structural damage.

We should be thankful it wasn't two oblivion shuttles slamming in to each other, that would have been far worse. At least gersts carriages are somewhat nimble compared to most.


To me oblivion cars look a lot more robust and also you are seated a lot further back from the front rail so I doubt riders would sustain the same crush injuries as they unfortunately have on the smiler.
 
garfield3gs
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:28 pm

Alton towers will be closed for another day 5/6/15 soucre:AT official website
 
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ponder
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:46 pm

I thought I'd add a bit of detail about HSE based on previous experience and possible outcomes for the park/Merlin.

The company which I am a manager for suffered a workplace accident a few years ago where the employee was in an area they shouldn't have been, fell and seriously injured themselves. The incident was taken to court where it was considered that although the health and safety training that was in place was robust, a more detailed training document could have prevented the accident. We then had to embark on full re-training of nearly 2000 employees with a considerably more detailed H&S training program.

What I'm getting at here is that, despite how solid AT/Merlin's training is (as I'm assuming the same training is rolled out across all UK attractions, for consistency), if HSE find so much as a chink in the armour, they could instruct full retraining of all staff before the park re-opens. This could possibly extend to all Merlin's UK operations (although I doubt they would close other attractions - just give Merlin a completion date).

Pure speculation I know, but just a view based on a previous situation.
 
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:51 pm

Ive just heard on radio two that AT "have confirmed that it took 10 mins for a first responder to get to the Smiler and 11 mins for them to call 999"

that in my view is shocking and unacceptable

If that's what AT think is an emergency response to what was a life threatening event ... then its no wounder HSE have shut them down

gobsmacked and shocked
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347
 
bengutt
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:53 pm

The bbc have just revealed that it took AT first responders quite some time, 12 mins, to arrive on scene. That's very poor.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347
 
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sw7nutter
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:57 pm

I'm not trying to cause an argument but when the train is 25ft in the air at a 45 degree angle I don't think there is much the first responders could have done. All they can do is evacuate the area which in the grand scheme of things isn't a job that needs to be done fast.
The delay in the emergency services was just them following training, the blame for that one lies with management rather than the people who responded.
 
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:02 pm

yes its a clear fail in their emergency response process why did it take almost a full hr to call the firemen!!!! this is going to cost them millions in the long run
 
archie.mm
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:06 pm

I heard somewhere that Alton says an option is to close the ride for good, is this true?
 
Jammydodger
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:06 pm

I can see why people aren't best pleased about the 999 call delay, but why are people attacking the first responders?

I'm not quite sure as to why 10 minutes is so shocking for the first responders. That's a minute to make the call and ascertain the facts, a minute or so to mobilise and gather their equipment, presuming they're coming from the medical center next to the sky ride, that's around 5 minutes in a golf buggy, more depending on people traffic, and then another 2 minutes or so to gain site access.

I'm genuinely intrigued as to what an "acceptable" amount of time for such an incident would be with a park this size.
 
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Adz
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:08 pm

I feel it's important to note that the phoning of the emergency services was done correctly and as per the staffs training.

I'm really disappointing to see the media leap on it and try to sensationalise that. 10 minutes is a perfectly reasonable time for the first responders and appropriate teams to make that call.

As for not phoning the fire brigade, as stated by Nick Varney the decision on how to evacuate the trapped guests was one taken by the emergency services - it was not Alton Towers decision to make on how to do that and as such it's perfectly reasonable they did not request the services of the fire brigade.
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TheBeast
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:10 pm

I agree, and would happily defend the Towers on this. Alton Towers have their own triage and first aid clinic. If the bosses were getting updates from the people on the scene and it only transpired 10 minutes later than they would need an ambulance would be required, then this time window is justified. Ive been in that clinic and they have nearly the full works, they dont have an X-Ray or anything like that but they do have good equipment. Given, they couldnt treat injuries classified as serious, although it would have taken some time to get over to the area (it takes about 10 mins to walk there, knock off 5 as they would be running, thats half of the time window) and then to judge whether they could treat it or not.

However the fact it took an hour to call the fire service is pretty bad.
Last edited by TheBeast on Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tom
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:11 pm

We shouldn't forget that the first responders are actually trained by WMAS, they are highly skilled people.
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bengutt
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:12 pm

Jammydodger wrote:
I can see why people aren't best pleased about the 999 call delay, but why are people attacking the first responders?

I'm not quite sure as to why 10 minutes is so shocking for the first responders. That's a minute to make the call and ascertain the facts, a minute or so to mobilise and gather their equipment, presuming they're coming from the medical center next to the sky ride, that's around 5 minutes in a golf buggy, more depending on people traffic, and then another 2 minutes or so to gain site access.

I'm genuinely intrigued as to what an "acceptable" amount of time for such an incident would be with a park this size.


Yes, a very good point. I fell for the media spin. They should include the time the first responders were called, rather than focusing on their arrival time.
 
Ryan.B
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:15 pm

The whole situation was handled incredibly well, it can take up to an hour to get someone out of a bad car crash, considering they got everyone out within 4 hours (16 people) as well as all they had to do. The first responders response was quite incredible how quickly it was done, and add to that pretty much everyone of the staff members first aid trained got to the people (including tree top quest staff, water park staff etc) then they had to find the safest way to get there, they had to build a bridge from scratch as well. The whole operation to rescue the riders was brilliant, they deserve praise for the response, not hate.

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