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TheBeast
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:59 am

I am curious whether Varney is actually installing this new ride in order to calm down the media or whether he is actually needing to add it in. As he said many times during tbe interview, it was an isolated event, and they have had thousands of successful carriages go round those circuits every day

It did seem odd that this new layer was not revealed
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Tom170499
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:12 am

I reckon The Smiler could be open for Scarefest as:

a) there are still 3 unaffected trains so unlike the incident on the Runaway Mine Train where it was closed for a long period of time as the train was sent back to Mack (I think it was Mack) to be refurbished

b) Nick Varney has been saying it will only take a few days to upgrade the ride system on the effected coasters

c) despite the bad press, The Smiler is still Alton Towers' signature ride so they'll want to get it open as soon as they can whilst taking the necessary precautions to prevent a future incident.

Scarefest is just over 4 months away so there's plenty of time to do what is needed to the ride. Also, Merlin probably won't open Saw until The Smiler is sorted so they'll want to get them both open in time for Halloween.
 
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Luce
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:28 am

Personally, I think the re-opening of The Smiler will be determined by the outcome of the HSE investigation and I think it will probably be next season due to the seriousness of the incident.

The other closed coasters will probably re-open this year once the new measures have been implemented, I reckon.
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Dan
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:53 am

I agree with Luce, I would be very surprised to see The Smiler operational again this season.

Due to it being served with a prohibition notice by HSE, Merlin will have to prove to them that there is absolutely no chance of an incident such as this ever repeating itself. It also depends on whether any criminal/legal proceedings are initiated against Merlin.

I don't believe they will re-open The Smiler until March 2016 at the earliest.
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Rita 2005
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:11 am

Morgano wrote:
Staff training and technical upgrades were mentioned and Merlin's reaction to close rides and talk about procedural changes and training suggest human error was almost certainly the contributing factor.


That sounds like Merlin's Senior Management pointing the finger at AT's Ride and Technical Staff, where those staff under pressure from management to re-open the ride as quickly as possible after the fault causing a lapse in judgement/error? It has been known to happen.
 
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Legoluce
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:34 am

Could someone tell me please, was there an accident on The Smiler before where people were hospitalised? People I'm with today have asked me about Tuesday, and when I tried to defend the park they said Watchdog said there were 2 other serious incidents where people were injured/hospitalised.

I didn't think this was case, but I don't trust google to give me the right answer given the media attitude at the moment!
 
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Dan
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:41 am

Legoluce wrote:
Could someone tell me please, was there an accident on The Smiler before where people were hospitalised? People I'm with today have asked me about Tuesday, and when I tried to defend the park they said Watchdog said there were 2 other serious incidents where people were injured/hospitalised.

I didn't think this was case, but I don't trust google to give me the right answer given the media attitude at the moment!


There has been an incident on The Smiler previously, but nothing on the scale of what happened on Tuesday.

Some guide wheels from the vertical lift hill popped out while a train was going up it, hitting the riders in the front row. No-one was hospitalised and they were all treated by the medical team at Alton Towers.

The only other incident of note is the bolt shearing not long after it opened. The bolt landed on the roof of the queueline and no-one was injured.
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MakoMania
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:43 am

Alton Towers will remain closed tomorrow-Sunday 7th June 2015
SeaWorld has rescued over 35,000 animals in need![/i]
 
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:45 am

xxbennxx wrote:
Block systems are designed in such a way that in theory, it is impossible to allow 2 trains into the same block at the same time. Therefore eliminating the possibility of such a crash.

There will be no scenario that the system allows this to happen, it is designed in such a way that in any faulty circumstance, the ride is locked down.

As this system has worked so well, for so long, all over the world. Cars are not designed with high speed collision in mind, as there is no scenario in which 2 cars should be allowed to enter the same section of track.

The only way around these safety systems is manually. As anything else, including a catastrophic systems failure, would simply result in a complete lockdown, which would halt the full cart on the first lift. Which did indeed happen for at least 10 minutes.

After that time, in which the system was clearly working perfectly. Something extraodinary has occured. Somehow the safety system which was working perfectly has been circumvented and the train allowed to traverse the lift hill and enter an occupied block.

Every scenario in my mind brings this down to some form of human error. Although i must stress that it is pure speculation, and should be taken as such. But my two cents on this terrible incident is simply human error.

I would like to extend my thoughts to the people who have suffered ad a result of this once again. I have ridden the smiler several times and have enjoyed it immensely. Unfortunately the people on tuesday do not share our experience of the ride. I wish all a speedy recovery, both physically and mentally, legs may heal but mental scars take much more work and patience to come to terms with.


What if the exit proximity sensor for that particular block is loose in such a way that it is constantly being triggered by a peice of track/bracket making the central computer think the train has left the block. Not so extraordinary if you think about it. Things have come loose on this ride many times and that's only the documented stuff - not the bolts that are tightened on inspection daily and brushed under the carpet before the press find out.
Last edited by wakey1512 on Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Dan
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:46 am

I'm slightly surprised that they're staying closed for a 5th day.

Saying that, maybe they're making sure that everything is watertight and ready to go for a re-opening on Monday.
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Nathan_Fisher
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:57 am

Dan.N wrote:
I'm slightly surprised that they're staying closed for a 5th day.

Saying that, maybe they're making sure that everything is watertight and ready to go for a re-opening on Monday.


I would have a guess they'll open on Monday, reports have said that the park will reopen over the next few days.
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Legoluce
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:13 pm

Thanks Dan.N, I didn't think there was but I didn't want to push the point with them in case I was wrong. Shows that the media is definitely giving the wrong impression :(
 
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:03 pm

Rita 2005 wrote:
Morgano wrote:
Staff training and technical upgrades were mentioned and Merlin's reaction to close rides and talk about procedural changes and training suggest human error was almost certainly the contributing factor.


That sounds like Merlin's Senior Management pointing the finger at AT's Ride and Technical Staff, where those staff under pressure from management to re-open the ride as quickly as possible after the fault causing a lapse in judgement/error? It has been known to happen.

I don't think speculation gets us anywhere and is probably not helpful. However, the new training and upgrades doesn't necessarily mean human error in regards to this incident. A technical fault may have been discovered that wasn't previously considered. This new info would mean new procedures and training would be implemented.
 
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:05 pm

I would hate to see this happen, but could Alton try to retheme the Smiler as part of a new addition for 2016. They have a plot free now after Submission has left and I know they tend to leave them free for a few years but given the circumstances...

ATR could get a new ride to replace Submission - even move Enterprise to give more room. (Dont know if it would fit, but I would love a smallish coaster like a Zac Spin or Impluse Coaster). They could then retheme the whole of X Sector, including Oblivion for the opening of the new ride. Then the Smiler would obviously need to be re-themed too. Dont know if the public would buy it but it would give ATR something to advertise to help people move on from the accident.

Although I would hate to see X Sector go...
 
Sentri558
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:43 pm

stealthsmiler wrote:
I would hate to see this happen, but could Alton try to retheme the Smiler as part of a new addition for 2016. They have a plot free now after Submission has left and I know they tend to leave them free for a few years but given the circumstances...

ATR could get a new ride to replace Submission - even move Enterprise to give more room. (Dont know if it would fit, but I would love a smallish coaster like a Zac Spin or Impluse Coaster). They could then retheme the whole of X Sector, including Oblivion for the opening of the new ride. Then the Smiler would obviously need to be re-themed too. Dont know if the public would buy it but it would give ATR something to advertise to help people move on from the accident.

Although I would hate to see X Sector go...

Remember, this is Merlin we're talking about, retheming is rare with them.

Besides, what's the point of retheming? Perhaps remove the laughing part of the song out of respect, but I would be surprised if they went for a full on retheme.
 
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:58 pm

Baggie79 wrote:
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/thirty-accidents-alton-towers-three-9397443

Probably Worst yet, how is it Altons fault if you headbut your friend?
#

They seem to have a tie up with Drayton Manor as they sent a tweet promoting them earlier.
I did reply asking if they had looked at DMP accident book.

No reply as yet :)
 
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:04 pm

cubwolf wrote:
Baggie79 wrote:
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/thirty-accidents-alton-towers-three-9397443

Probably Worst yet, how is it Altons fault if you headbut your friend?
#

They seem to have a tie up with Drayton Manor as they sent a tweet promoting them earlier.
I did reply asking if they had looked at DMP accident book.

No reply as yet :)

I've just had a look at that 30 accidents at Alton Towers, most of them were just accidents - how can towers be accountable for someone jumping in Sub Terra or in a Scare Maze (which are designed to be scary/startling)? My brother would probably also fall into those statistics as he ended up in hospital after a visit to towers - but that was down to illness, not due to being at the park....
 
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TheBeast
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:17 pm

Thats just more of the bad press hitting them for no reason. About 50% of thise, if not more, were not Alton's fault... why cant people see that???
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browr020
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:22 pm

wakey1512 wrote:
xxbennxx wrote:
Block systems are designed in such a way that in theory, it is impossible to allow 2 trains into the same block at the same time. Therefore eliminating the possibility of such a crash.

There will be no scenario that the system allows this to happen, it is designed in such a way that in any faulty circumstance, the ride is locked down.

As this system has worked so well, for so long, all over the world. Cars are not designed with high speed collision in mind, as there is no scenario in which 2 cars should be allowed to enter the same section of track.

The only way around these safety systems is manually. As anything else, including a catastrophic systems failure, would simply result in a complete lockdown, which would halt the full cart on the first lift. Which did indeed happen for at least 10 minutes.

After that time, in which the system was clearly working perfectly. Something extraodinary has occured. Somehow the safety system which was working perfectly has been circumvented and the train allowed to traverse the lift hill and enter an occupied block.

Every scenario in my mind brings this down to some form of human error. Although i must stress that it is pure speculation, and should be taken as such. But my two cents on this terrible incident is simply human error.

I would like to extend my thoughts to the people who have suffered ad a result of this once again. I have ridden the smiler several times and have enjoyed it immensely. Unfortunately the people on tuesday do not share our experience of the ride. I wish all a speedy recovery, both physically and mentally, legs may heal but mental scars take much more work and patience to come to terms with.


What if the exit proximity sensor for that particular block is loose in such a way that it is constantly being triggered by a peice of track/bracket making the central computer think the train has left the block. Not so extraordinary if you think about it. Things have come loose on this ride many times and that's only the documented stuff - not the bolts that are tightened on inspection daily and brushed under the carpet before the press find out.


this is most likely not the issue, there is more than 1 sensor on the blocks usually 2 or 3 if just 1 of them triggered the ride will E-STOP, for the block to reset the ride system will need to detect entry and exit of the block 1 faulty sensor would not cause this issue.
 
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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:28 pm

After looking through Twitter at #AltonTowers it seems like many people have switched their focus from the accident itself, to the hatred of Kay Burley.
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