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Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:27 pm
by wakey1512
browr020 wrote:
wakey1512 wrote:
xxbennxx wrote:
Block systems are designed in such a way that in theory, it is impossible to allow 2 trains into the same block at the same time. Therefore eliminating the possibility of such a crash.

There will be no scenario that the system allows this to happen, it is designed in such a way that in any faulty circumstance, the ride is locked down.

As this system has worked so well, for so long, all over the world. Cars are not designed with high speed collision in mind, as there is no scenario in which 2 cars should be allowed to enter the same section of track.

The only way around these safety systems is manually. As anything else, including a catastrophic systems failure, would simply result in a complete lockdown, which would halt the full cart on the first lift. Which did indeed happen for at least 10 minutes.

After that time, in which the system was clearly working perfectly. Something extraodinary has occured. Somehow the safety system which was working perfectly has been circumvented and the train allowed to traverse the lift hill and enter an occupied block.

Every scenario in my mind brings this down to some form of human error. Although i must stress that it is pure speculation, and should be taken as such. But my two cents on this terrible incident is simply human error.

I would like to extend my thoughts to the people who have suffered ad a result of this once again. I have ridden the smiler several times and have enjoyed it immensely. Unfortunately the people on tuesday do not share our experience of the ride. I wish all a speedy recovery, both physically and mentally, legs may heal but mental scars take much more work and patience to come to terms with.


What if the exit proximity sensor for that particular block is loose in such a way that it is constantly being triggered by a peice of track/bracket making the central computer think the train has left the block. Not so extraordinary if you think about it. Things have come loose on this ride many times and that's only the documented stuff - not the bolts that are tightened on inspection daily and brushed under the carpet before the press find out.


this is most likely not the issue, there is more than 1 sensor on the blocks usually 2 or 3 if just 1 of them triggered the ride will E-STOP, for the block to reset the ride system will need to detect entry and exit of the block 1 faulty sensor would not cause this issue.


Yes you are right there are entry and exit proxies but if the exit proxy is faulty it will be either in a permanent on/off state (usually off) bearing in mind the ride suffered technical problems before hand with an empty car being sent around it would seem most likely to be sensory issue which would allow the possibility of trains entering the same block if that would be the case.

Other causes could be internal sensor error, water in wiring, water in plugs, water in circuit boards, trapped/chaffing wiring, poor sensor adjustment, bent sensor mounts, loose sensor mounts, heavy wear in the train causing deflection from the sensor, software defects, foreign objects, dirt...

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:32 pm
by Screech
Could be anything then...

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:05 pm
by techiejay
If the empty car did roll back, is it possible that it passed the block exit sensor successfully and then rolled back? Maybe the software isn't set up to account for a car re-entering a block backwards? Would be interested to know if it's possible from someone who knows more about the technicalities than me!

Jay

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:11 pm
by lewis97
techiejay wrote:
If the empty car did roll back, is it possible that it passed the block exit sensor successfully and then rolled back? Maybe the software isn't set up to account for a car re-entering a block backwards? Would be interested to know if it's possible from someone who knows more about the technicalities than me!

Jay

The train doesn't clear the block until it has passed all the way through the holding brake before the vertical lift.

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:54 pm
by techiejay
Good to know, thanks for confirming :-)

On a more positive note the Kay Burley petition is almost at 7500 signatures!

Jay

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:53 pm
by Aidan Lowe
The petition is pointless, she'll never get sacked as she's a founding member. The petition may lead to an apology but I doubt it, she may feel she asked the right questions. Its just the way she kept going back to the same line of questioning trying to make him break.

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:49 am
by TheBeast
Thats the thing that annoyed me so much with the interview. Varney will never get the apology he severely deserves because capitalism states that Kay Burley holds all the cards, not any of us. Its downright unfair and if it wasnt for the fact I also do not support either of facism or communism id say something needs to be done about it. At least this way, we can show Burley she was downright wrong and maybe somewhere in her dense cranium she may actuaoly, I dont know, feel some emotion?

However, ignore my 15 year old political rant ;) I just get grumpy when people do stuff I dislike

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:47 am
by techiejay
Oh I'm pretty sure she won't get the sack - being a founding member of one of the world's biggest TV news channels comes with a certain amount of job security ;-)

What the petition does highlight is the number of people out there who still like the news to be presented as a statement of facts, and not sensationalism, speculation and downright bullying, and I'd like to think that somebody, somewhere in Sky News HQ will see it and take some notice.

Jau

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:39 am
by Sr88
Just a very quick one re. that interview on sky. Absolutely disgusting listening to that pathetic idiot interviewer. She won't even listen to the answers fully. I cannot believe I am seeing such trash.

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:34 am
by ponder
The Sky interview is typical of any Murdoch-run news network. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned Fox News which is also part of Murdoch's empire, and they're just about the worst of the bunch (watch any interview by Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity and you'll see what I mean). So while I understand the frustration, it's nothing they haven't gotten away with for years, and these are techniques they'll continue to use.

As for criminally prosecuting whoever may have been responsible for this incident, if it is indeed found to be human error, then if they've had the correct training which they've signed to say they've understood, then mistake or no mistake, the accountability sits with them.

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:59 am
by NemesisRider
As mentioned earlier, Kay Burley's awful interview has become the main focus with #AltonTowers. I just find that, especially as the shock headlines and blaming are dying, the public have found some pity for Merlin. This may be a bit far out but with the way Varney handled that interview (very admirably in my opinion) may actually have given AT some positive PR. I mean, nobody wants to support a bully like Kay Burley was in that interview. I'm probably overthinking but that interview has backfired in my opinion.

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:01 am
by shaundentwilliams
It was a human error as well as a technical problem as a ride op he should of waited for the test car to come back to the station till he dispatched another with people on.
As a technical error the block sencers weren't working as a result the accident was unstoppable because there was no brake run


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:35 am
by TheBeast
Im not getting why these brakes didnt work. Its coincidence enough that the car was missed in the first place...the brakes just seem like another level to an already complex problem, if im honest.

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:39 am
by Dan
shaundentwilliams wrote:
It was a human error as well as a technical problem as a ride op he should of waited for the test car to come back to the station till he dispatched another with people on.
As a technical error the block sencers weren't working as a result the accident was unstoppable because there was no brake run


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Smiler is designed to have multiple cars on the circuit at any one time, due to the number of "blocks" it has. Once the first (empty) train had cleared the first block the train behind is clear to be dispatched.

The ride system did what it was meant to do in that it stopped the train on the first lift hill as it recognised that the empty train hadn't reached the next block (brakes at the bottom of the vertical lift)

The big question is why did 10-15 minutes later the train carry on up the lift hill, on it's way to the subsequent crash? That is what HSE will be working to establish and although we may have theories and ideas around how it happened it would be wrong to say "it was this" or "it was that" at this point.

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:52 pm
by Altonaction
You wont get the truth from the media,.. just subversion.There are plenty of examples.

Best to wait for merlin and HSE for correct info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiUFgWzqupQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzuk45sKaYQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6KVCLfWG5w

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:17 pm
by mark_h
ponder wrote:
As for criminally prosecuting whoever may have been responsible for this incident, if it is indeed found to be human error, then if they've had the correct training which they've signed to say they've understood, then mistake or no mistake, the accountability sits with them.


If it turns out that there is a culture of operating with improper procedure then the accountability will go up the chain of supervision/management.

If the staff were inadequately trained and supervised then that would be something that management would have to answer for.

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:36 pm
by DeadJack5
I've got a strange feeling it will be open tomorrow.

They've taken longer to give us the verdict as compared to other days.

Also as well their style of response to people asking on twitter is I think a lot more positive. ( as in, they are using smiley faces and more positive responses I guess to answer)

I think they are taking longer so that they can double check it is safe if it is decided to open tomorrow.

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:52 pm
by tallicay2k
Deadjack5 wrote:
I've got a strange feeling it will be open tomorrow.

They've taken longer to give us the verdict as compared to other days.

Also as well their style of response to people asking on twitter is I think a lot more positive. ( as in, they are using smiley faces and more positive responses I guess to answer)

I think they are taking longer so that they can double check it is safe if it is decided to open tomorrow.


I agree, either tomorrow or Tuesday

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:24 pm
by MakoMania
Alton Towers have said on Twitter that Oblivion will also be closed for the forseeable future.

Re: The Smiler Incident 02/06/15

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:25 pm
by JBragg1
Unfortunately The Smiler and Oblivion will stay closed for the foreseeable future. The Big Six promotion will not be running.

By Alton Towers on Twitter