UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
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Nemesis94
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:57 am

I sincerely doubt it will be a vertical launch. If you check the plans and measure the radii of the curves onto and off of the vertical lift (approx 4m), this is exactly the same as the structures used on a Euro-Fighter Model 320+ lift (such as Rage at Southport). Hence it is much too sharp to be launched into or over, so it will be a standard chain lift.

I must correct myself, I originally said that it looked like this would use Gerstlauer's 3 row trains (such as Huracan and Dare-Devil-Dive). But given the measurements above SW7 must only be using 2 row trains. The rides with 3-row trains have a larger radius onto their vertical lifts.

Which leaves me confused. Why the all new track for a ride with normal Euro-fighter cars? Could they be perhaps 6-wide to help with capacity?
See my No Limits recreation of SW7 (filmed by JAMMYD777) at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOFUNyo-MKY
 
Bear

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:06 am

I suggest everyone compares Hollywood Rip, Ride, Rockit's vertical lift to the plans for this. There certainly is a striking similarity, interesting because the lift hill on the plans looks NOTHING like both generations of Gerstlauer vertical lift.

To quote myself from Theme Park Review:

"Everything about it screams Euro-Fighter, but in the back of my mind I still think it could well be an X-Car.

Like loads have mentioned, the noise report for Th13teen was done with X:\No Way Out, which while technically being a similar coaster is infact totally different. They might consider Saw to be a similar coaster too, but it doesn't say anywhere in the plans "this is going to be a Gerstlauer Euro-Fighter". So while it's looking likely, I'm maintaining that there is every chance it could still be an X-Car, which would make an equal amount of sense."
 
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Nemesis94
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:06 am

Oh, forgot to add. I've checked the dimensions of SW7's station against Saw's and it's pretty big.

Both buildings are approximately 11m tall.

Saw's building is approximately 30m x 20m

SW7's station buliding is approximately 28m x 14m, whilst the circle offshoot has a radius of 11m.

To me it still seems very tight to fit in a turn and drop into this building.
See my No Limits recreation of SW7 (filmed by JAMMYD777) at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOFUNyo-MKY
 
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RyanY
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:36 am

Bear wrote:
but it doesn't say anywhere in the plans "this is going to be a Gerstlauer Euro-Fighter". So while it's looking likely, I'm maintaining that there is every chance it could still be an X-Car, which would make an equal amount of sense."



It does in the noise report it says that this will be the same manufactor and ride type as Saw and we know that saw is a Gerstlaurer Eurofighter.

But I think I have come up with a way that this could get quite a good throughput.

First I think that the trains will be 3 rows or 4. And to get a good throughput there could but duel stations like air but the stations could be long enough to hold 2 of the trains. When your stations 2 trains will be released they will be in hold 2 and 3 as 1 train from the other station will be in hold 1 waiting to be released when the other train from that station will have reached the midway point, when it does the train in hold 1 will launch/Chain lifted out of the hold thus leaving the hold open for the train in hold 2 then leaving the 2nd hold open to the train in hold 3. And this could go on swithing the staion to release there trains to hold 2 and 3.

Hope you understand.  :D
 
Bear

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:51 am

If this turns out to be an X-Car, you can form an orderly queue to tell me I was right.
 
Lotte
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:56 am

Just to make it clear to all of you who still do not think this is a Eurofighter in 3.1 of the noise report is states

Noise from the planned new coaster was modelled based on a similar one located at
Thorpe Park. The Thorpe Park ride, “Saw” is the same type and manufacturer as the
proposed ride, including a “beyond vertical” drop.
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Tom G
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:00 am

The noise report may have been carried out by a third party, but I think that makes it even more likely that they wouldn't feel confident making such a specific comparison without input from Alton Towers.

Given the noise complaints and legal challenges they have had (specifically in this area of the park), I cannot under any circumstances believe that such a false statement with regards to the manufacturer would get through in the plans.
 
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adsyrah
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:00 am

I've been thining about throughput and block sections. I'm not too sure if my logic is right, so bear with me!

I think it's safe to assume the only block sections on the outside track will be the section after the first lift and after the vertical track. Each block should take < 1 minute to complete. Inside the building there may be some sort of preshow before you get to the first lift, that's block 3.

So 3 block sections i.e. there could be 3 cars going round at any one time (preshow, first section of track, second section of track) with a car being dispatched as often as the longest block takes to complete. People could be loaded / unloaded like Spinball (i.e. while the car is moving slowly) which would overcome a bottleneck of loading, so we could be looking at a car being dispatched every 45 seconds or so. 45 second dispatch would mean 75 cars an hour:

8 people per car = 600pph
12 people per car = 900pph
16 people per car = 1200pph

Is my thinking right?
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Bear

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:02 am

I remain skeptical. To be honest, I would love it if this was just a massive, massive bluff to throw us off something right under our noses! Or if they half-built this, then announced it was actually a 2014 attraction and just left it!
 
Bear

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:04 am

adsyrah wrote:
I've been thining about throughput and block sections. I'm not too sure if my logic is right, so bear with me!


I am with you.

adsyrah wrote:

8 people per car = 600pph
12 people per car = 900pph
16 people per car = 1200pph

Is my thinking right?


In theory yes, but it would take longer to load guests as the train capacity increases :)
 
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Stern John
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:05 am

I think the difference between whether this will great ride or an utterly insane ride will be if they decide to go with OTSR's or lapbars.
I have never been upside down on a coaster with only a lapbar and despite it being perfectly safe I have to say it sounds pretty scary!
If they do decide to use lapbars on a multi-inversion coaster people will probably wonder why Rita has OTSR's!
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adsyrah
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:07 am

Bear wrote:
In theory yes, but it would take longer to load guests as the train capacity increases :)


An argument for dual loading like Air, maybe?
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Tom G
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:09 am

Lotte wrote:
Just to make it clear to all of you who still do not think this is a Eurofighter in 3.1 of the noise report is states

Noise from the planned new coaster was modelled based on a similar one located at
Thorpe Park. The Thorpe Park ride, “Saw” is the same type and manufacturer as the
proposed ride, including a “beyond vertical” drop.


The beyond-vertical drop statement is interesting, as I do not believe that plans show one in the outside section. It's possible there is one in the building but why would they reveal this?
 
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Spike
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:15 am

It is funny reading people are still speculating over manufacturer. It's the same across all the other major sites, despite people clearly quoting the SAW connection in the planning. :lol:

I hope it's a twisted mangled mess of steel. Grey & black always looks good in that. :D
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MY HAND IS A DOLPHIN!!! >:O
*Honest Cint!*
 
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Tom G
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:18 am

People on CoasterForce are as well. We might as well be speculating it's made out of wood, if we can question what the planning documents say (they say it's steel). I just find it bizzare but each to their own and I'm going to stop being irritated by it now :lol:

I haven't compared closely, but the track style looks identical to Saw's to me?
 
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NemmyJunkie
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:22 am

I think that the plans look really good! I'm not complaining about how 'messy' it will look, it's all the ride experience :)

I cannot wait to see what they have in store for the themeing and the 'worlds first' element ..Well done Alton Towers!!
 
AstroDan

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:28 am

The one area where a densely packed coaster would work, is X Sector. I really look forward to it developing!

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
 
muttlee
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:08 am

Tom G wrote:
Lotte wrote:
Just to make it clear to all of you who still do not think this is a Eurofighter in 3.1 of the noise report is states

Noise from the planned new coaster was modelled based on a similar one located at
Thorpe Park. The Thorpe Park ride, “Saw” is the same type and manufacturer as the
proposed ride, including a “beyond vertical” drop.


The beyond-vertical drop statement is interesting, as I do not believe that plans show one in the outside section. It's possible there is one in the building but why would they reveal this?


If you interpret this as two sections. I think the first is the statement that this is the same type and manufacturer as Saw. As this is a document used for legal reasons, I don't think this statement can be wrong, they would have said "is of an equivalent type of ride for noise purposes" or something like that (like they did with th13teen).
The second part of it could be read as Saw has a beyond vertical drop, which would be likely to produce louder screams etc. and therefore more noise, so would actually be louder than this ride. It isn't actually saying that part is the same as the new ride.

Does that seem to make sense or am I reading it badly?!  :?
 
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ImagineerJohn
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:13 am

It is not confirmed anywhere that this is the same manufacturers.

No one has taken into account that the track style is not reminiscent of Saws nor is the Vertical lift.

What company do produce this track style and the EXACT in detail vertical lift structure.. Maruer Sohne X-Car .. Go compare the lfit hill drawings to that of Rip Ride Rocket.. They are identical..

Merlin do not own a X-Car so they cannot do sound tests on any ride other than Saw due to the similarity. Potentially this design was won by Maurer instead of Gerstlaurer. Th13teen was sent to numerous manufacturers before the chosen one was Intamin. The document may not have been ammended or properly worded seeing how late a decission could be made and items forgotten.
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Tom G
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:19 am

muttlee wrote:
Tom G wrote:
Lotte wrote:
Just to make it clear to all of you who still do not think this is a Eurofighter in 3.1 of the noise report is states

Noise from the planned new coaster was modelled based on a similar one located at
Thorpe Park. The Thorpe Park ride, “Saw” is the same type and manufacturer as the
proposed ride, including a “beyond vertical” drop.


The beyond-vertical drop statement is interesting, as I do not believe that plans show one in the outside section. It's possible there is one in the building but why would they reveal this?


If you interpret this as two sections. I think the first is the statement that this is the same type and manufacturer as Saw. As this is a document used for legal reasons, I don't think this statement can be wrong, they would have said "is of an equivalent type of ride for noise purposes" or something like that (like they did with th13teen).
The second part of it could be read as Saw has a beyond vertical drop, which would be likely to produce louder screams etc. and therefore more noise, so would actually be louder than this ride. It isn't actually saying that part is the same as the new ride.

Does that seem to make sense or am I reading it badly?!  :?

Well it's all about interpretation, but I think you're either right (and they have written the sentance poorly) or it's just a mistake.

On CoasterForce they are using the Thirteen plans comparing teh ride to X as basis that this won't be a Gerstlauer. I never saw the Thirteen plans but I stand by what you and I are saying that this is infinitely unlikely to be wrong.

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