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RustyG
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:31 pm

altontowerskid wrote:
Would anyone hazard a guess to what the name of this coaster will be?

My money's on Amnesia, just because I think it's fitting with the theme of Oblivion and suits the ride's crazy layout. 



I'm going to go with "The Void"...might follow The Black Hole and Oblivion' general theme. Doubt we'll get a sniff of a name until this time next year though.
Would be interesting if they just chose to name it Secret Weapon
 
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LordOfDarkness
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:32 pm

Tom G wrote:
Also, don't Vekoma use that track style these days? I'm not sure how track design works as Shockwave looks like B&M track?


Shockwave had a subcontractor in the form of Giovanola, Theres alot of history between B&M and Giovanola
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Dormiens-Dave

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:39 pm

I was just pondering today how much of a master-stroke it is to not have the classic 95 degree drop on this coaster. With it not having a signature drop its not impacting on the claims of Oblivion.

A 95 degree drop in x-sector would have killed blivvy.
 
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ImagineerJohn
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:40 pm

I think this is where some of you are mistaken. Graphical representation is more important than a branded name.

The date the recordings were taken were November. This coaster will have been bidded by numerours Manufacturers. They may have orginally been strongly working with Gerstlauer yet decided to go with Maurer. Between November and now they have had the chance to choose a proposed plan. The Sound detailings as i said will not be redone. They just required a coaster with similar complexity and style at the time. This small comment is not legally entitled to be correct jsut like the winning bidders of a housing complex do not have to be outlined in planning permisison that is chosen after in most cases.

We have this argument every year people believed Sw6 Th13teen was B&M and we clearly saw Bi-Rail Intamin Track.. Graphical Nichols architects will have drawn this as proposed.. You need to show support structure and track style other wise you could showcase any propsed style track and get away with building some sort of huge track style creating visual problems.

I am not saying its not Gerstlaurer but the confirmation is not truely binding.
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mrbrightside
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:41 pm

Great point Dave. Clearly Oblivion has been taken into account when designing the ride. The lack of a visible (there may yet be one indoors somehow) 'beyond vertical drop' combined with a visible vertical lift rather than a vertical drop all helps to keep Blivvy as intimidating as possible.

EDIT: John, what also has to be remembered is that the ride is only included for transparency. The application is only truly for the station building - therefore the track may not be wholly accurate.


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Dormiens-Dave

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:51 pm

Just a couple of points i wanted to ask John?

We met John Wardley on the first week of November and he stated that the SW plans had been finalised. This also came alongside a comment from a source that plans had changed. Yet you stated the measurements for SW where done in November, as i know you have good sources too are we looking at a third change of plan later in November.

Second if this isnt Gerstlaur then wouldnt the noise report be invalid seen as they have stated the ride is the same manufacturer as the example coaster. Again you probably know more about planning law than me.

Thanks
 
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ImagineerJohn
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:57 pm

The November date is what another member here braught up earlier in this topic of when they were taken in article 3.1 I am saying that there is potential that the the plans may have changed if they say it was Gerstlaurer. I was unaware that the suggestion by Mr Wardley stated the plans had been completed in November yet we all know plans can change much like the 2011 season where plans for the 4D Cinema fell through.

Sadly i do not have any sources on SW7 and i mearly only work off the evidence put infront of me via planning and marketing. John W i am sure would work with a team within Merlin to design their own coaster much like how he designed a woodie before then apply a manufacturer who can propose the best scheme off their finalised ideas.
Last edited by ImagineerJohn on Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Morgano
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:05 pm

Can I point out the most important thing in this document is the ride and building design. The ride doesn't require planning permission but clearly someone has taken time to draw up this design, it wasn't just someone's imagination it's done to specification and probably came directly from a CAD file...

The statement about noise is clearly two parted. The more than vertical drop relates to SAW not SW7, it's unlikely to be anything special inside of the building. The outside is more than enough to carry this ride with the public and enthusiasts.

The ride will be of similar length to Takabisha which puts it around 30 seconds longer than SAW. The throughput of SAW is 1000 people an hour so with the current capacity of the cars and longer track length were looking at less than 1000 per hour nearer 600-700. I believe the drastic new track design and bulkier vertical lift is due to higher capacity cars which will allow a throughput more realistic to Altons needs of more than 1000 per hour.

Wider cars would certainly be an option which would require a stronger bulkier track design as well as a better designed lift. Considering the ride design is not identical but EXTREMELY similar to Takabisha I believe Gerstlauer will be the true designers. Also consider the year + between SW7 and Takabisha and you can see a possibility that Gerstlauer will be pushing a new designed Eurofighter with a better capacity and 2 part track design (optional launch and a lift or dual lift elements) which allow for a longer ride and a better throughput.

Clearly Takabisha will struggle with throughput and this new track design indicates that the Eurofighter is evolving.

Of course if this isn't the case despite what the document says all the evidence points to this being an X-car track design but I hope this isn't true.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:11 pm

It's really amazing how Gerst just don't sit still!

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adsyrah
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:16 pm

Quick question...

Why do people dislike X-Car coasters so much?
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Morgano
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:17 pm

Just some information from my thoughts...

Takabisha is a 2 part ride,  SW7 is a 2 part ride
Takabisha has a launched start and a vertical lift, SW7 possibly has a launched start and a vertical lift
Takabisha is around 2 minutes long, SW7 will be around 2 minutes long
Takabisha has 7 inversions, SW7 has 8 inversions
Takabisha has a very similar style and layout as SW7
Takabisha is Gerstlauer's newest Eurofighter (longest and most intense).
Takabisha is the first of a new style of Eurofighter from Gerstlauer and SW7 looks like it will be the second.

These new style of Eurofighters feature 2 parts, more inversions, intense layouts and even steeper more than vertical drops. If you look at each Eurofighter they are getting more intense, steeper and longer as time goes by. This indicates that Gerstlauer are capable of increasing capacity to allow for longer length tracks. They've also introduced launched elements to the Eurofighter.

In my eyes everything including the statement in the planning application indicates that this is a Gerstlauer.
Last edited by Morgano on Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Spike
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:17 pm

adsyrah wrote:
Quick question...

Why do people dislike X-Car coasters so much?


G-Force @ Drayton, it's my reasoning anyway.
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NemmyJunkie
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:42 pm

 
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Nemesis94
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:45 pm

Just a thought on the track front. Is it possible that Intamin and Gerstlauer track are fabricated by the same people? Hence how Euro-fighters have Intamin-like Ladder and Tri-track. Could this new track be at the fabricators suggestion, hence why it looks similar to the New Intamin mega/giga coaster track?

BTW, I believe this is definately a Gerstlauer. Much as I'd like a Maurer. Just look at the inversions and the track layout, all similar to ones that Gerstauer have done before. The vertical lift, incidently, is EXACTLY the same size as that used on the Euro-fighter 380+ (22m).
See my No Limits recreation of SW7 (filmed by JAMMYD777) at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOFUNyo-MKY
 
Chris W
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:57 pm

The layout screams Gertslauer to me, but I can totally understand why people are still suggesting that it could be a Maurer X-Car.

I'm anti X-Car for a few reasons. Mainly, how poorly Maurer implemented Rip, Ride, Rockit. The ride has poor capacity, has been closed for safety issues, the trains are already knackered and need replacing, and it still doesn't operate as intended. Screamscape are reporting today that KumbaK are currently on property for "Ride System Improvements".
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Dylan
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:06 pm

I'm still going to remain on the fence about the confirmation of Gerstlauer as manufacturer. It's already been mentioned that the statement is factually incorrect due to the lack of beyond vertical drop. Who is to say that the wording of the rest of the statement is not 100% accurate?
But, Gerstlauer are forever developing their designs, so perhaps they have now come up with a brand new track design for this coaster, presumably for a different train configuration. Which looks exactly like Maurer's X-Car track design.
The elements look very much Gerstlauer though. I am not expecting this to be launched though, due to the possible timings of both trains / cars. I think we will have a standard lift hill and a vertical lift hill running at the same speed. No launch.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:12 pm

I know this is going against the general consenus on the forum, but im actually glad its not a B&M, the park already has 3 top quality B&Ms, that each offer different experiances, Air is smooth and thrilling to the GP, Oblivion is daunting and is an amazing rush and Nemesis is fast and intense. I can't really think of a park in the world that imo has a better set of B&Ms that Alton. Assuming it is a new concept of eurofighter, I can see this being a huge hit with the GP, Saw is very popular and if it does have a verti cal launch as the USP,  I can see this really bringing in the crowds for Alton. I am glad we are finally seeing X Sector getting the attention it deserves.

As for SW7 relegating blivy to a supporting ride, I think that couldn't be further from the truth, having the shortest and longest major coasters together will work a treat, and when you enter the area, you are facing blivy and I still think, from a visual point of view, it will be the more imposing coaster in X Sector. Bring on 2013!
 
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Spike
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:25 pm

Chris wrote:
Screamscape are reporting today that KumbaK are currently on property for "Ride System Improvements".


Oh dear, then the ride will never work properly again. Kumbak were responsible for the breaking system on The Grand National plaguing it with problems which still happen to date. they were also responsible for adding the breaks on Space Invader ruining the ride experience when it was open. In the words of a top Pleasure Beach official "Kumbak will never come back to the Pleasure Beach again"

They are rides breakers not improvers.
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darrenhosker
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:27 pm

I have just done some digging on the old Saw plans and if I have understood it correctly, the SW7 building is bigger in Area Size, its also higher in Metres.

SW7 Station Building = 872sqm & 11.3m High
SW7 Maintenance Building = 190sqm & 7.8m High

Saw Station & Maintenance Building = 785sqm & 10m High

Worth noting that the SW7 Maintenance building is lower in height.

Saw Plans Link:
http://planning.runnymede.gov.uk/RBCNGE ... .07%2f1230
 
CoasterCrazyChris
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:38 pm

I thought that cylindrical part was a canopy?

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