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Matthew144

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:32 pm

Ritadz wrote:
Sorry, but how the hell is Oblivion not a sit down coaster?

I can see you point with Nemmy, but Oblivion?


In my case I more of lean against the seat than sit on it, depends how long your legs are, in any case you don't sit within a car as such like Th13teen.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:22 pm

Wow i've not been in this thread for a while but boy oh boy has it gotten strange debating what a sit down coaster is. I look at a seat at something I place my buttocks on with something to rest my back on. So how in the hell is Nemesis not a sit down coaster? You SIT in a seat
 
Big Dave

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:33 pm

Nemesis is an inverted, sitdown coaster or inverted for short.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:36 pm


In my case I more of lean against the seat than sit on it, depends how long your legs are, in any case you don't sit within a car as such like Th13teen.


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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:36 pm

Just back from a weekend trip to Thorpe with my Daughter.

Both days got in really early and hammered the coasters, Nemesis Inferno x12, Stealth x10, Swarm x6, colossus x8 Saw x2. Flats x 8, I love rush, fantastic air time.

As you can see we had a good coaster count but only rode Saw twice (once each day) we could of ridden Saw more with little or no wait. The thing is it such an uncomfortable ride, it fees like your brain is being shook inside your skull.

Before this turns into a trip report I shall get to my point...........

I have ridden saw several times before, but this time I had a more invested interest in it, what with a similar coaster coming to Alton in the form of SW7. Before I went to Thorpe I was genuinely was excited about our first "proper" coaster coming to Alton in years, after rising Saw I am rather worried. This thing id horrid to ride it's more painful than fun, how on earth can you get such a rough ride on a relatively new coaster? Colossus on the back row is smoother.

I don't believe for one minute that Gerstlaur set out to create a rough ride but the fact remains in rides awfully.

Even though the ride had some of the longest queues on park it must be deemed as a fail. I can't understand why Merlin would take another chance on getting a rough ride from them.
Last edited by Roodlesnouter on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:10 pm

roodlesnouter wrote:
Both days got in really early and hammered the coasters, Nemesis x12, Stealth x10, Swarm x6, colossus x8 Saw x2. Flats x 8, I love rush, fantastic air time.


Nemesis at Thorpe Park?  :P

I rode Saw and found it pretty smooth and a friend of mine commented on how smooth it was, I really don't get how it gets such different reviews on smoothness, is it that some of the trains are not right and some are? :?
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:31 pm

I think it has more to do with the person although how I'm not sure. My dad refuses to go on Saw as it has been too rough for him every time. However I'm roughly the same build and never had an issue.

My personal concern with Saw is not that the ride is rough but that too many of the elements don't do anything for me. The inside drop, air-time hill and reverse Immelman are good but the larger and more graceful elements don't really register. I tend to find Euro-fighter's are at their best when performing quick transitions and given the lack of them in SW7 it does worry me. However if the trains are a little longer (3 or 4 carts long) these elements might work better.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:37 pm

My thoughts on Saw from when I went a few weeks back aren't that is is rough, I remember it being fairly smooth actually, but after the outdoor MCBR some of the elements really throw you from one side to the other pretty quickly. Smoothly, but it's a bit aggressive the movements.
 
Blaze

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:19 pm

Matthew144 wrote:
Blaze wrote:
Matthew144 wrote:
There are more ways of riding a coaster than sitting down or standing up, infact out of all of the SW so far only the last one is a true sit down coaster.
AT have never followed other parks they are leaders in innovative design and wouldn't spend £20 mill on a Eurofighter with or without lapbars.

They spent £15m on a mine train.

Nemesis, Oblivion, you're still sitting down. You're sitting down, standing up or lying down. It won't be a flyer because they have Air, it won't be a standup, it just won't and everything about the plans suggests this is a sit down. I've heard it has standard 8 seats, but there could be more. Either way, it's going to involve sitting down on top of the track.


Th13teen is a state of the art worlds first free fall drop rollercoaster not a mine train, it may not be to a lot of people's taste but technically it is an advanced bit of kit by the worlds top manufacturer.
Granted I'll give you the fact that your arse is touching plastic on Nemesis and Oblivion but there not sit down rollercoasters.
Nobody knows for sure except AT what will be delivered next year so it's unfair to criticise, people are only suggesting ideas to discuss and don't need to be shot down disrespectfully.

Thirteen is a mine train with a drop section. It's a great ride. But it's still a mine train. The point is, the cost is irrelevant to the base ride model. Thirteen cost that much because of the drop, if SW7 really is costing around £20m, then it's because of the theming, landscaping, what (if anything) happens in the building and the ride itself. You can't just say it's not a Eurofighter because it's more expensive than they normally are. It will almost certainly be a Eurofighter, the cost comes from everything else. If it was a B&M or Intamin it would be about 50% more expensive.

Actually, it is fair to criticise, but you haven't been shot down. I just said you will be sitting down. ;) And to be specific, above the track, in the traditional way, with a floor. ;)

Oblivion isn't a sit-down coaster? Bloody hell, I've been riding it wrong all this time? It's a miracle I'm still alive! :P

The whole stand-up thing is an in-joke directed at me anyway, so don't worry about it. :)

Regarding roughness and Saw, different people see roughness as different things, so some people think Saw and Eurofighters in general are rough, others don't. There's a consensus that Saw is already ageing badly, though.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:12 pm

The way I see it with Saw is that it is an 'intense' ride, not rough.  Sometimes it is a bit jolty and uncomfortable (though personally I've only had 1 or 2 uncomfortable experiences), but the point is that it's meant to be a paced, intense ride.  Despite the lack of theming, the bit after the final MCBR (drop and final inversion) is quite possibly my favourite part of the ride (closely followed by the indoor surprise) because of the sheer force of it.  To be honest, I can see the grumbles about Saw, but the intensity of the thing only adds to the experience.  Colossus on the other hand rides badly, having occasional good rides and many bad rides, where your head is treated like a ping pong ball...

The mistakes made with Saw, however, do seem to have been realised and taken into account.  The outside section of Saw lacks theming and is too 'spread out' in my opinion, whereas SW7 seems to have gotten theming and compactness spot on. 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:33 pm

That comment about riding Oblivion the wrong way all this time had be in stitches!
 
Matthew144

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:59 pm

Blaze wrote:
Thirteen is a mine train with a drop section. It's a great ride. But it's still a mine train. The point is, the cost is irrelevant to the base ride model. Thirteen cost that much because of the drop, if SW7 really is costing around £20m, then it's because of the theming, landscaping, what (if anything) happens in the building and the ride itself. You can't just say it's not a Eurofighter because it's more expensive than they normally are. It will almost certainly be a Eurofighter, the cost comes from everything else. If it was a B&M or Intamin it would be about 50% more expensive.

Actually, it is fair to criticise, but you haven't been shot down. I just said you will be sitting down. ;) And to be specific, above the track, in the traditional way, with a floor. ;)

Oblivion isn't a sit-down coaster? Bloody hell, I've been riding it wrong all this time? It's a miracle I'm still alive! :P

The whole stand-up thing is an in-joke directed at me anyway, so don't worry about it. :)

Regarding roughness and Saw, different people see roughness as different things, so some people think Saw and Eurofighters in general are rough, others don't. There's a consensus that Saw is already ageing badly, though.


If you read what I wrote I said true sit down but it doesn't really matter I was just pointing out the fact that nothing should be taken for granted, I missed the joke at your expense Blaze about the standup, I'm still find my way around the boards and I won't bite so quick next time!
The point that I am making is that if this was just going to be a eurofighter with a few bells and whistles then I don't think that it would be a SW project, Rita wasn't and it has been confirmed that this will be a worlds first.
The press release from AT said a worlds first rollercoaster not rollercoaster containing a world first element, and the plans said similar ride type not the same.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:25 pm

I find SAW fairly smooth as well, the only time being a bit rough and head jolting was went I went on it in rain.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:53 pm

I rode Saw for the first time last weekend, and found it to have rough spots. The indoor section I thought perfectly smooth and very fun. It was at the bottom of the larger drops outside I noticed frequent jolts and jerks, whereas the rolls into and out of the immelman and dive loops were fine. Someone who has ridden Saw, Speed and Rage will probably be best placed to comment on smoothness of these rides.

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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:14 pm

Believe me, it WILL work. I will make it!!!!!  :twisted:

:lol:


Regarding Saw, I feel that it is an average ride. It could be great if it weren't for some rough areas although it could be worse (hoping that it doesn't age too badly). I have ridden Speed and was pleasantly surprised with the smoothness although that was a few years ago now.

Regarding SW7, lapbars would definitely aid the thrill factor, although as some have mentioned, the idea could come across as unnerving.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:36 am

Matthew144 wrote:
Blaze wrote:
Thirteen is a mine train with a drop section. It's a great ride. But it's still a mine train. The point is, the cost is irrelevant to the base ride model. Thirteen cost that much because of the drop, if SW7 really is costing around £20m, then it's because of the theming, landscaping, what (if anything) happens in the building and the ride itself. You can't just say it's not a Eurofighter because it's more expensive than they normally are. It will almost certainly be a Eurofighter, the cost comes from everything else. If it was a B&M or Intamin it would be about 50% more expensive.

Actually, it is fair to criticise, but you haven't been shot down. I just said you will be sitting down. ;) And to be specific, above the track, in the traditional way, with a floor. ;)

Oblivion isn't a sit-down coaster? Bloody hell, I've been riding it wrong all this time? It's a miracle I'm still alive! :P

The whole stand-up thing is an in-joke directed at me anyway, so don't worry about it. :)

Regarding roughness and Saw, different people see roughness as different things, so some people think Saw and Eurofighters in general are rough, others don't. There's a consensus that Saw is already ageing badly, though.


If you read what I wrote I said true sit down but it doesn't really matter I was just pointing out the fact that nothing should be taken for granted, I missed the joke at your expense Blaze about the standup, I'm still find my way around the boards and I won't bite so quick next time!
The point that I am making is that if this was just going to be a eurofighter with a few bells and whistles then I don't think that it would be a SW project, Rita wasn't and it has been confirmed that this will be a worlds first.
The press release from AT said a worlds first rollercoaster not rollercoaster containing a world first element, and the plans said similar ride type not the same.


A true sit down ride? When you get on all of these rides you mentioned in previous posts you SIT in your seat therefore it is a sit down ride there's no half way spots all you are doing is sitting.
 
Matthew144

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:43 pm

Air and shockwave also have seats, they must be sit downs as well then.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:50 pm

You do not 'sit' in Air's seat while the actual ride is in motion. The seat is only there to allow you to 'assume the position.'


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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:04 pm

And it's genuine standup for all guys on Shockwave.  You keep that damn saddle as far away from your undercarriage as possible, whatever the designers intentions!  :P ;) 
 
Blaze

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:04 pm

Matthew144 wrote:
The point that I am making is that if this was just going to be a eurofighter with a few bells and whistles then I don't think that it would be a SW project, Rita wasn't and it has been confirmed that this will be a worlds first.
The press release from AT said a worlds first rollercoaster not rollercoaster containing a world first element, and the plans said similar ride type not the same.

Again, Thirteen is Intamin's family mine train model with a custom drop section, and an extremely short mine train model at that.

Two lifts, possible launch/es, possible dark ride section and minimum 8 inversions already make this more of a coaster than Thirteen, regardless of the model. Plus, SW is effectively meaningless. It's just a name. It's not the ride type, it's the level of investment. Rita wasn't one because it was an off-the-shelf model placed with no theming.

Worlds first and containing a world first are the same thing, essentially. Thirteen was described as a world first and the only thing separating it from Mine Train Ulven is the drop element.

Matthew144 wrote:
Air and shockwave also have seats, they must be sit downs as well then.

Air and Shockwave or not ridden in a sitting position. Oblivion still is, you just lean back slightly more, but Air you ride completely face down, as explained above.

-Prometheus- wrote:
And it's genuine standup for all guys on Shockwave.  You keep that damn saddle as far away from your undercarriage as possible, whatever the designers intentions!  :P ;) 

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