UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
Dormiens-Dave

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:38 pm

A mobius coaster generally must have 2 stations, 2 routes but only one loop, its essentially one rollercoaster that operates as two separate ones. Dueling coasters interact closely at strategic points and racing coasters follow each other closely.

Sounds about right to me, feel free to disagree
 
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The Psychoaster
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:36 am

Dormiens-Dave wrote:
Back onto whether a gymmick can work or not the only thing i would say is that nearly every roller-coaster innovation has at some point been a gymmick. When Nemesis was built it was unique in Europe and very rare everywhere else. Same with both Air and Oblivion (Oblivion is gymmick the ride). launches where also once a gymmick with many coasters such as the old intamin LSM launches literally being all about the launch.

The issue with Gymmicks is as i said before when they are not part of a very good coaster, this is where th13teen falls on its bottom. Even if the track changes from the plans i imagine it will be similar in scale (i still think they will change by increasing the number of inversions to get the world record as their worlds first) so we know that what ever we get we should have A) a good coaster if it doesn't have Gerst-Ache and B) a coaster with some length to it which UK coasters often fail at (Ironic considering the Ultimate at LWV)


Am I going crazy or is it gimmick not gymmick?
 
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swfcjambo
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:34 am

Mayby Dormiens Dave is spot on - What if the track was only just to please the planning people, and what we actually get is a complete surprise when the park reopens in march next year? It's entirely feasibly that, as only the building needs planning permission, that the rest of the track layout is a complete unknown?

(and yes, I'd feel VERRRYYY sorry for the guy that's done the fantastic No Limits recreation of "SW7")

I do think it would be a shame if they didn't build this coaster somewhere on the park in a few years though, even if it was a standard Eurofighter.....
 
Satch

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:37 am

It will however still be a Gerstlauer
 
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Nemesis94
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:05 am

swfcjambo wrote:
and yes, I'd feel VERRRYYY sorry for the guy that's done the fantastic No Limits recreation of "SW7"


Whoa whoa whao! You don't need to feel sorry for me, I enjoy doing the No Limits modelling stuff even if it doesn't turn out to be 100% accurate. I think people may be exaggerating how different the ride may actually be though. There will be differences, but I believe the ride shown on the plans is pretty much the ride we will get. One section of track in particular looks certain for a re-design, the one that connects the first batwing/cobra element to the mid-course brakes. Most people have noticed how fierce this is on the videos and I wouldn't be suprised if this was replaced with a corkscrew-like element. I also guess most of the supports will be different too.

I know the original drawings only had a NO Limits mock-up on them (rather than the official drawings for Gertslauer as per Saw) but it is most likely the case that these drawings weren't ready yet. I'm not sure where Alton Towers would stand planning wise if the ride was completely different, I know technically it doesn't need planning permission, but the building did and that was taken in context with that ride shown.
See my No Limits recreation of SW7 (filmed by JAMMYD777) at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOFUNyo-MKY
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:12 am

I agree with the above ^. just out of intrest how many ride designs/plans have been released to us lot in the past that have been dramatically changed before the ride itself is constructed ? I don't think many with real noticable differences, i no nothing about planning permissions ect ect but i'am farely confident that the coaster we see before us on the plans will without a doubt be what we get. I know it's all only her/say at the minuite and maybe a little wishfull thinking that the layout will change but i wouldn't bother looking to far into it  :), the proposed layout we have looks like a beast of coaster, what with multiple inversions, airtime hills, quick shifting transitions and not to mention what's inside the bulding or what the "worlds first "could be. The only thing i think will change on the plans is the track style and as nemesis94 said the supports, i just hope we get a new style of gerst track, if not i'll still be happy with the standard eurofighter track design. bring on 2013 and the coming months  :D
 
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mrbrightside
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:26 am

It's still an extremely interesting thought as to whether the track might change to allow MORE inversions. Going for the record?
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Boz
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:36 pm

interesting thought, i have been looking at the clearances on my recreation, and they don't work. under the spiders legs and track crossovers at a couple of points, have at best 2.5m between the rails and obstructions.
standard euro fighters cars won't get through those gaps, hell most normal cars won't  :?

i think we could be seeing an entirely new low profile ride car for this thing. either that or the track layout submitted is purely indicative

stay tuned to the following topic for an update every Friday 8)
http://forum.towerstimes.co.uk/x-cite/boz's-sketchup-recreations/15/

BTW Nemesis 94 your recreation is fantastic, and mine is in no way suppose to steal your thunder ;)
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:20 pm

I'm of the opinion that this will get the world record for inversions. probably 12, so my guess is a few corkscrews inside.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:35 pm

I'd worry if they went for the record that, if the layout remains mostly true to the released plans, that there will be too much movement and inversions, and not enough slightly slower pace sections to let you catch your breath and get your bearings. That being said though, with a roll inside the bilding (which isn't unreasonable to assume) and two more added in outdoors somewhere, that would be the record for track inversions.
 
Dormiens-Dave

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:45 pm

It would need to be 13 inversions or above for an inversion record. We know the current layout has definately 8 inversions with a potential for 1 in the building (like Saw).

As for the planning laws im fairly sure they are free to change the layout.
 
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mrbrightside
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:47 pm

Dormiens-Dave wrote:
As for the planning laws im fairly sure they are free to change the layout.
While they probably are free to change it - I doubt they would change it too dramatically from the plans that have been submitted. After all, they were submitted with superimposed images showing the views from various points around the park and so on.

I doubt very much that any major layout changes will take place from the plans, but I agree they could change. With extra elements being added, or existing ones being tweaked slightly?
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:49 pm

What ride is the current inversion record holder? I must have looked at out of date information.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:07 pm

I honestly can't see them changing the layout for anything other than minor tweaks to do with the engineering aspects, what we see on the plans is what we're getting I reckon. 
 
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Ryan.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:10 pm

-Prometheus- wrote:
I honestly can't see them changing the layout for anything other than minor tweaks to do with the engineering aspects, what we see on the plans is what we're getting I reckon. 


My thoughts exactly. I don't think misleading the planning office and the local residents is in Alton Towers' best interests, the last thing they want to do is give the locals reason to question the legitimacy of their planning applications, especially when said locals have already objected to the original layout on the grounds of visibility
 
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mrbrightside
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:22 pm

Ryan. wrote:
...especially when said locals have already objected to the original layout on the grounds of visibility
But if the plans didn't alter in height or visibility, then they could feasibly change.  I doubt they they will change particularly dramatically. But I could still see extra inversions added, or the existing ones tweaked (lengthened, shortened etc.) - as long as the overall look of the ride wasn't dramatically different. And definitely not from external viewpoints.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:27 pm

I can't see how they would be "misleading" the locals and planning offices though. It's the building that needs permission granting. The coaster is within the GDO, so could (Correct me if I'm wrong) be built without the need for plans of the whole ride.

What is on the plans could simply be included by Studios and Alton in order to give a rough idea  of the building and a vague image of how it will look when in situ. The planning offices and locals will no doubt have realised that the coaster itself is within the restrictions, and the only thing Alton have really tied themselves to is the fact that it will be a Gerst and have similar noise levels to Saw. Provided they keep to those they have in no way mislead anyone of any significance who could legally give them any grief have they?

Personally I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there is something they aren't letting on here. Alton aren't stupid. They know that we will scrutinize every last detail of their plans in order to discover the secret behind the Secret Weapon coaster. They are building a ride which doesn't need planning permission wholly, and given X-Sector is one of the most controversial areas from a noise point of view is it not odd that they would want to show every detail of their project if they could get away without doing so? The main people who will be looking for the details are us as enthusiasts. So what better way to fool us all than by showing us a ride which isn't 100% the final product? It's just the sort of thing I can picture Alton doing personally, just like with The Flume poster which was found in Mutiny Bay a few months back. It got all the enthusiasts talking about it, and was created by the park to mess around with their enthusiasts. What's to say they wouldn't do it again?
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mrbrightside
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:48 pm

Of course, whilst that would be typically Alton - they run the risk of upsetting a lot of people if these plans are only a half-truth. If that becomes the case, one would hope that whatever the ride turns out to be will be something even better than what has been designed. Because if those plans are a red herring, they are a damn fine looking red herring!
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Dingerbell

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:07 pm

Coaster_Dude wrote:
What ride is the current inversion record holder? I must have looked at out of date information.


11 Inversion Coaster (yeah great name) in Japan is under construction, and opening this year. Also, I've seen somewhere about a 12 inversion coaster being built somewhere.
 
Dormiens-Dave

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:20 pm

At the end of the day this is just me being suspicious. If it does change i think it will be more additions of elements rather than a complete rework so its visual impact will be the same.

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