UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
User avatar
cool_boy_jon
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 72
Joined: July 2009
Location: Hogwarts

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:30 am

scott.smith wrote:
My opinion about SW7's Model and Manufacturer
The park explicitly says it will be based on SAW: The Ride at Thorpe Park and will be the same type (Euro-Fighter) and manufacturer (Gerstlauer).  Its also completely reasonable as the layout resembles the recently opened Takabisha. So its safe to assume that Alton Towers is in fact building a Euro-Fighter right?

I think not.

In fact, I’m almost 100% convinced that this absolutely is not a Euro-Fighter.  That short and allegedly, “revealing”  couple of sentences also state that there will be a beyond vertical drop on the ride, when there obviously isn’t such an element shown in the diagrams.  Its understandable why the park would draw the comparison however; Alton Towers is notorious for having incredibly difficult neighbors.  Thus saying it will be reminiscent of one of the company’s other coasters allows for easy (and cheap) noise level testing to gather data that will appease the neighbors.

The more I think about it, the less a Euro-Fighter makes sense.  Alton Towers is striving for strong growth in the current decade, yet, why would the invest so much in such a low capacity style of coaster?  A Euro-Fighter has just 1-train capable of either 6 or 8 passengers.  And with no mid-course brake runs like other large-park Euro-Fighters, the capacity of this would suck.  And by suck, I’m guessing it wouldn’t exceed 500-600 people per an hour. Not what you want for a high profile ride as this will be.

Then just what exactly is Alton Towers building?

Well to be completely frank, I don’t know.  No one does, except for the lucky few who are involved in the design of this future masterpiece.  However, with the clues provided, I’ve made some educated guesses as to just what we might see from Alton Towers’ Secret Weapon 7.

Image

The track shown in the diagrams resembles that of Maurer Sohne X-Coasters. Photo of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, Universal Studios Florida

Far too often, concept art is in no way based on the final product.  The artist typically is not fully aware of what the track looks like, and even if they are, they skew the perception of the real thing by adding their own “artistic flavor”.  However, these planning documents and their schematics of the rides are very accurate.

Taking a look back at The Swarm’s plans, B&M’s signature box track can obviously be made out in the diagrams.  The track in SW7′s plans is not B&M, and is most definitely not Gerstlauer’s 3-spine track used on Euro-Fighters.  Instead, the track most resembles that of Maurer Sohne’s X-Coaster (as shown above of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit).

An X-Coaster system actually makes the most sense with the layout.  X-Coasters are known to have twisted layouts, such as the one shown, and also have a much higher capacity than Euro-Fighters; while they have only been built with 1-2 cars per train so far, Mauerer Sohne advertises that they can accompany up to 3-cars per a train, making for 18-passengers.  3-cars per a train would make plenty of sense considering the long stretches of track between blocks.

Image

The vertical track section for SW7 is reminiscent of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit's. Source of diagram: publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk

The most illusive aspect of the ride is the vertical track section.  All that is really known is that this section is that the coaster goes up this segment, and not down it.  Luckily, the diagrams also give a detailed look at the support system for this vertical section.  And supporting the track claim, the support structure exactly matches that of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, and look nothing like the euroFighter vertical supports.

Another one of the wild rumors about SW7 before these plans were released was that it would be a launch coaster.  This actually proved to be another big aspect fueling the Euro-Fighter fire; Takabisha has both a launched section and vertical lift, as shown in SW7.  Yet all other evidence points to Maurer Sohne coaster, with a Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit style vertical lift.  And the initial incline segment at the beginning of the ride certainly does not look like a launch either.  So the whole launch rumor is bogus, right?

Not so fast. Alton Towers’ Secret Weapons have a history of being “firsts” for either Europe or the world.  Nemesis (SW3) was Europe’s first inverted coaster, Oblivion (SW4) was the world’s first dive machine, AIR (SW5) was the world’s first flying coaster, and Th13teen (SW6) was the world’s first vertical drop coaster.  So it makes sense that SW7 would have some noteworthy and gimmicky fact about it as well.

A Zierer vertical launch coaster was once planned for Alton Towers. Could SW7 feature one? Source: Mandi Coleman on Flickr.

Image

RCTLounge member ‘DJMean‘ pointed out that one of the old SW6 concepts was a Zierer tower launch coaster.  For those unfamiliar with the model, it is reminiscent of a Euro-Fighter (go figure), with a vertical LSM launch, simulating a space-shuttle like take off.

Which made me wonder, what happens if the they dusted off the old vertical launch concept?  After all, it would be a  first (only one Tower launch exists in the world) making it a likely candidate for a Secret Weapon.  However, its obvious that this isn’t a Zierer Launch Tower coaster either.  So could it be a vertical launch?

Image

Maurer Sohne's concept art for the advertised vertical launch SkyLoop Source: www.maurer-rides.com

Coincidentally, Maurer Sohne actually does make vertical launch coasters, or at least advertises that they are capable of doing so.  The manufacturer states that they are capable of building a 1-g, 27 mph, 151 foot vertical launch.  And with SW7 standing at  just 100 feet, these statistics more than meet the qualifications.  While they are only shown for the SkyLoop model, I see no reason why it couldn’t be used on a more standard X-Coaster.

I’m no engineer or smart university student but the transition from the long straight away to the vertical bit does not look passenger friendly if it was taken immediately after a launch.  Instead, I would guess that it is actual a 2-block brake run.  1 block slowing the coaster down, the other a waiting section before slowly going up the transition vertical and then launching towards the sky.  Sounds like the icing on this glorious cake to me.

So to conclude, here is my prediction for Secret Weapon 7:
•A Maurer Sohne X-Coaster
•3, 6 passenger X-Cars per train
•8-9 inversions
•Begins with a standard incline lift hill
•Europe’s first vertical launch coaster

What an awfully long and drawn out post, when the above bullet points outline the entire purpose of this write-up.  However, I know there will be a lot of nay-sayers and I just wanted to lay down the evidence.  None the less, I am very excited to see Alton Towers obviously putting so much thought and effort into what looks to be an amazing secret weapon, especially after the incredibly disappointing Secret Weapon 6.  With construction not scheduled to begin until September 2012, it may be a long time before we get all the details on the new attraction, but at least we have an idea of what to expect


Agreed, but are X-cars capable of doing inversions? I reckon they'd have to re-design the restraints if they do. I've ridden Hollywood Rip-Ride Rocket and would not be safe going through 8-9 inversions in those restraints. The near vertical loop on the ride is scary enough without proper restraints that press into you. Great post anyway!
The only thing I like better than roller coasters,Alton Towers, Towers times and Theme Parks is HARRY POTTER, yes, I am a Potterhead and proud of it! :)

Image
 
User avatar
The Moon
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 364
Joined: June 2012
Location: The Moral Highground

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:16 am

^Sorry but really? Ever heard of G-Force at Drayton? Or a Skyloop? Or any other X Car but Rip Ride Rockit?
THC selectively targets and destroys tumor cells while leaving healthy cells unscathed. Conventional chemotherapy drugs, by contrast, are highly toxic; they indiscriminately damage the brain and body.

Toke up...
 
User avatar
cool_boy_jon
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 72
Joined: July 2009
Location: Hogwarts

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:05 pm

The Moon wrote:
^Sorry but really? Ever heard of G-Force at Drayton? Or a Skyloop? Or any other X Car but Rip Ride Rockit?


Sorry, i thought scott.smith meant just that type of X-car. Not all the other X-cars like G-Force and so on.
The only thing I like better than roller coasters,Alton Towers, Towers times and Theme Parks is HARRY POTTER, yes, I am a Potterhead and proud of it! :)

Image
 
User avatar
The Moon
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 364
Joined: June 2012
Location: The Moral Highground

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:34 pm

Got it, well all X-Cars are the same design, large U shaped lap bar.
THC selectively targets and destroys tumor cells while leaving healthy cells unscathed. Conventional chemotherapy drugs, by contrast, are highly toxic; they indiscriminately damage the brain and body.

Toke up...
 
ATLurker
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 11
Joined: February 2012

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:00 pm

cool_boy_jon wrote:
Agreed, but are X-cars capable of doing inversions? I reckon they'd have to re-design the restraints if they do. I've ridden Hollywood Rip-Ride Rocket and would not be safe going through 8-9 inversions in those restraints. The near vertical loop on the ride is scary enough without proper restraints that press into you. Great post anyway!




You'd be perfectly safe.
 
scw55
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 356
Joined: July 2012

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:51 pm

From an ignorant GP person who happens to think coasters are pretty; point of view, I hope it's an X-train over a Euro fighter because long trains are more interesting to look at than single car trains. Oblivion gets away with it at how 'weird' the train is. The train also makes it look almost mechanically plonky down a hole-yness. But generally, if Eurofighter trains went around the track I'd rather be underwhelmed.

Also it'd look slightly underwhelming compared to oblivion who is 2x8 rows a train verses 2x4 mini train. So a long train would make the new ride look unrelated to Oblivion (assuming you can't use your eyes to notice the track difference).
 
User avatar
roary01
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 355
Joined: June 2009
Location: Staffordshire

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:09 am

In some ways i do hope we had trains instead of single cars, because it would help through-put. Also Oblivion is single cars but they are massive compared to eurofighters which gives oblivion its massive through-put..
I just hope whatever we get it has the through-put, this was achieved extremely well with th13teen and means it can be done if the correct ride car is chosen, otherwise were going to have some very long queues... and which Alton's gate figures increasing year on year we need more coasters with large through-puts...
 
User avatar
Queenmaya99
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 76
Joined: February 2012
Location: Shropshire

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:30 am

scott.smith wrote:
My opinion about SW7's Model and Manufacturer
The park explicitly says it will be based on SAW: The Ride at Thorpe Park and will be the same type (Euro-Fighter) and manufacturer (Gerstlauer).  Its also completely reasonable as the layout resembles the recently opened Takabisha. So its safe to assume that Alton Towers is in fact building a Euro-Fighter right?

I think not.

In fact, I’m almost 100% convinced that this absolutely is not a Euro-Fighter.  That short and allegedly, “revealing”  couple of sentences also state that there will be a beyond vertical drop on the ride, when there obviously isn’t such an element shown in the diagrams.  Its understandable why the park would draw the comparison however; Alton Towers is notorious for having incredibly difficult neighbors.  Thus saying it will be reminiscent of one of the company’s other coasters allows for easy (and cheap) noise level testing to gather data that will appease the neighbors.

The more I think about it, the less a Euro-Fighter makes sense.  Alton Towers is striving for strong growth in the current decade, yet, why would the invest so much in such a low capacity style of coaster?  A Euro-Fighter has just 1-train capable of either 6 or 8 passengers.  And with no mid-course brake runs like other large-park Euro-Fighters, the capacity of this would suck.  And by suck, I’m guessing it wouldn’t exceed 500-600 people per an hour. Not what you want for a high profile ride as this will be.

Then just what exactly is Alton Towers building?

Well to be completely frank, I don’t know.  No one does, except for the lucky few who are involved in the design of this future masterpiece.  However, with the clues provided, I’ve made some educated guesses as to just what we might see from Alton Towers’ Secret Weapon 7.

Image

The track shown in the diagrams resembles that of Maurer Sohne X-Coasters. Photo of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, Universal Studios Florida

Far too often, concept art is in no way based on the final product.  The artist typically is not fully aware of what the track looks like, and even if they are, they skew the perception of the real thing by adding their own “artistic flavor”.  However, these planning documents and their schematics of the rides are very accurate.

Taking a look back at The Swarm’s plans, B&M’s signature box track can obviously be made out in the diagrams.  The track in SW7′s plans is not B&M, and is most definitely not Gerstlauer’s 3-spine track used on Euro-Fighters.  Instead, the track most resembles that of Maurer Sohne’s X-Coaster (as shown above of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit).

An X-Coaster system actually makes the most sense with the layout.  X-Coasters are known to have twisted layouts, such as the one shown, and also have a much higher capacity than Euro-Fighters; while they have only been built with 1-2 cars per train so far, Mauerer Sohne advertises that they can accompany up to 3-cars per a train, making for 18-passengers.  3-cars per a train would make plenty of sense considering the long stretches of track between blocks.

Image

The vertical track section for SW7 is reminiscent of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit's. Source of diagram: publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk

The most illusive aspect of the ride is the vertical track section.  All that is really known is that this section is that the coaster goes up this segment, and not down it.  Luckily, the diagrams also give a detailed look at the support system for this vertical section.  And supporting the track claim, the support structure exactly matches that of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, and look nothing like the euroFighter vertical supports.

Another one of the wild rumors about SW7 before these plans were released was that it would be a launch coaster.  This actually proved to be another big aspect fueling the Euro-Fighter fire; Takabisha has both a launched section and vertical lift, as shown in SW7.  Yet all other evidence points to Maurer Sohne coaster, with a Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit style vertical lift.  And the initial incline segment at the beginning of the ride certainly does not look like a launch either.  So the whole launch rumor is bogus, right?

Not so fast. Alton Towers’ Secret Weapons have a history of being “firsts” for either Europe or the world.  Nemesis (SW3) was Europe’s first inverted coaster, Oblivion (SW4) was the world’s first dive machine, AIR (SW5) was the world’s first flying coaster, and Th13teen (SW6) was the world’s first vertical drop coaster.  So it makes sense that SW7 would have some noteworthy and gimmicky fact about it as well.

A Zierer vertical launch coaster was once planned for Alton Towers. Could SW7 feature one? Source: Mandi Coleman on Flickr.

Image

RCTLounge member ‘DJMean‘ pointed out that one of the old SW6 concepts was a Zierer tower launch coaster.  For those unfamiliar with the model, it is reminiscent of a Euro-Fighter (go figure), with a vertical LSM launch, simulating a space-shuttle like take off.

Which made me wonder, what happens if the they dusted off the old vertical launch concept?  After all, it would be a  first (only one Tower launch exists in the world) making it a likely candidate for a Secret Weapon.  However, its obvious that this isn’t a Zierer Launch Tower coaster either.  So could it be a vertical launch?

Image

Maurer Sohne's concept art for the advertised vertical launch SkyLoop Source: www.maurer-rides.com

Coincidentally, Maurer Sohne actually does make vertical launch coasters, or at least advertises that they are capable of doing so.  The manufacturer states that they are capable of building a 1-g, 27 mph, 151 foot vertical launch.  And with SW7 standing at  just 100 feet, these statistics more than meet the qualifications.  While they are only shown for the SkyLoop model, I see no reason why it couldn’t be used on a more standard X-Coaster.

I’m no engineer or smart university student but the transition from the long straight away to the vertical bit does not look passenger friendly if it was taken immediately after a launch.  Instead, I would guess that it is actual a 2-block brake run.  1 block slowing the coaster down, the other a waiting section before slowly going up the transition vertical and then launching towards the sky.  Sounds like the icing on this glorious cake to me.

So to conclude, here is my prediction for Secret Weapon 7:
•A Maurer Sohne X-Coaster
•3, 6 passenger X-Cars per train
•8-9 inversions
•Begins with a standard incline lift hill
•Europe’s first vertical launch coaster

What an awfully long and drawn out post, when the above bullet points outline the entire purpose of this write-up.  However, I know there will be a lot of nay-sayers and I just wanted to lay down the evidence.  None the less, I am very excited to see Alton Towers obviously putting so much thought and effort into what looks to be an amazing secret weapon, especially after the incredibly disappointing Secret Weapon 6.  With construction not scheduled to begin until September 2012, it may be a long time before we get all the details on the new attraction, but at least we have an idea of what to expect

http://parkthoughts.com/2012/01/07/alto ... -revealed/
______  ___                     
___   |/  /_____ _____  _______ _
__  /|_/ /_  __ `/_  / / /  __ `/
_  /  / / / /_/ /_  /_/ // /_/ /
/_/  /_/  \__,_/ _\__, / \__,_/ 
                 /____/

Image
 
User avatar
scott.smith
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 131
Joined: August 2011

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:02 pm

The post brought some life back into the topic which I think I did a positive action and I should have stated it wasn't mine and im sorry if this post offended anyone, forgive my actions people  :cry:
 
User avatar
JaykeAT
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 691
Joined: January 2012
Location: 84

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:30 pm

^Didn't you do the same on tst?
Image
 
User avatar
scott.smith
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 131
Joined: August 2011

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:16 pm

Yes I did but on here first
 
User avatar
tayspru
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 2
Joined: August 2012

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:42 pm

Looking at the plans, and all of the speculation of a vertical launch, I thought I may offer my two penneth.

The length of the straight section looks to me a way to facilitate the speculated duelling element, ie brakes are used here to line up each car to the next, without having to completely stop the car for long periods of time. This would allow the duelling element without affecting loading/unloading.

Regarding a worlds first, I would speculate that this would be either in the GIANT station building (hence the elevation changes between entry and exit) or to do with the cars.
 
User avatar
TWITCHYcraigus
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 1
Joined: August 2012
Location: Caldicot, South Wales

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:58 am

im not shore what the ride will probs be called. but the bit of the ride that go's inside i hope it has really good lighting effects :D.
 
User avatar
AJLlama
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 42
Joined: June 2012
Location: Newbury, Uk

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:09 pm

I'm not too bothered what the world first aspect will be, although i am naturally curious. As long as it's a good all rounder i'll be happy, although i am worried about the throughput, i'm quietly confident that they will be gurstalter style cars, as the top sections and the tightness of the inversions seem to tight an angle to support longer trains. although I'm impressed with Scott's hypothesis, and kinda hope he's right. 
 
User avatar
The Moon
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 364
Joined: June 2012
Location: The Moral Highground

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:58 pm

So just to reinvigorate this topic and I am bored, will this or any new SW from now on equal the might of Nemesis? I feel this has the potential, but only if everything is perfect to the Nth degree.
THC selectively targets and destroys tumor cells while leaving healthy cells unscathed. Conventional chemotherapy drugs, by contrast, are highly toxic; they indiscriminately damage the brain and body.

Toke up...
 
User avatar
N3m3s1s
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 191
Joined: March 2012

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:04 pm

I find Nemesis great because it's a brilliant ride with good themeing. If SW7 is to pull it off and beat the all mighty Nemesis, it needs to have good, original themeing, a smooth and enjoyable ride and (if there is one), a non-gimmicky, exciting worlds first.
 
User avatar
phillipvass
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 225
Joined: July 2004
Location: At home

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:36 pm

N3m3s1s wrote:
I find Nemesis great because it's a brilliant ride with good themeing. If SW7 is to pull it off and beat the all mighty Nemesis, it needs to have good, original themeing, a smooth and enjoyable ride and (if there is one), a non-gimmicky, exciting worlds first.


I'm sure SW7 will be a great ride but I highly doubt it will be able to match Nemesis simply because they're squeezing it into such a tight area...

The key to Nemesis and Oblivion being such great rides is the landscaping, the fact Nemesis hugs the terrain and Oblivion goes below it. SW7 will be more about the sheer amount of loops and near misses when whizzing past track, whis is why, as good as SW7 looks, it won't have the staying power of the 3 B&M's IMO....
 
User avatar
oliviamae
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 211
Joined: March 2012
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:58 pm

phillipvass wrote:
N3m3s1s wrote:
I find Nemesis great because it's a brilliant ride with good themeing. If SW7 is to pull it off and beat the all mighty Nemesis, it needs to have good, original themeing, a smooth and enjoyable ride and (if there is one), a non-gimmicky, exciting worlds first.


I'm sure SW7 will be a great ride but I highly doubt it will be able to match Nemesis simply because they're squeezing it into such a tight area...

The key to Nemesis and Oblivion being such great rides is the landscaping, the fact Nemesis hugs the terrain and Oblivion goes below it. SW7 will be more about the sheer amount of loops and near misses when whizzing past track, whis is why, as good as SW7 looks, it won't have the staying power of the 3 B&M's IMO....


you don't know that they won't be exceptionally clever with the themeing, and we have no idea what's inside the indoor section. There's no way that Alton will slack on this after the disappointment of Th13teen and the disappointment initially of Sub-Terra. The themeing of both of those attractions, discounting the ride elements, are very good. I think they realise, especially after The Swarm, how important that is. Don't forget the huge spider structure, this may have another purpose!

SW7 will not necessarily be just about the inversions on the track - all you know about it so far is the ride layout and basic concepts of themeing. We have no idea on how the rest of it will play out, and I think it's just as interesting in a landscaping position as Nemesis - it is fit into a small area in an intelligent way.

Don't try and rubbish the ride before it's out, or conversely build it up to be something it's not. Either way, all you'll associate with the ride is disappointment, when you want excitement. Having a negative attitude to the ride this early won't get you itching for release day!
 
scw55
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 356
Joined: July 2012

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:20 am

I believe SW7 will have staying power, because of its layout.

If you boil down the other rides, they have rather, in comparison simplistic layouts.

Oblivion, big drop which emerges with a half over-banker turn with a little dip.
Nemesis is kinda one huge helix and inversions sprinkled around.
RITA is an Intamin Launched Coaster who tries and not go too far about tree-line.
Thirteen is a modern family non-inverting coaster
(they make up in terrain, theming etc)

SW7 seems to have a substantial layout which you would draw parallel to layouts on the Continent or America in complexity in comparison. It is helped that the manufacturer are experienced with designing layouts now, opposed to the previous SWs which have been proto-types/early examples.

I don't think it'll rock Nemesis and Oblivion due to the strength of their theming but it will make itself known and exist for many years as a equal in its own right.

Anything else to do with SW7 like theming, terraforming, anything else special will only add to it.

I hope the coaster sits with-in the X Sector well, like interact with it. Rather than sit on the egde kind of cut-off from the zone. I hope there's a lot of vantage points near the ride, because things like Oblivion's Pit seating area and Nemesis' fly-by chained fence are very nice touches. Lets you 'interact' with the ride without you having to ride it.
 
User avatar
tworandom
TT Member
TT Member
Posts: 31
Joined: January 2012
Location: Cornwall

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:18 pm

To be honest I think its a little unfair to compare sw7 to nemesis as they are from different era`s of AT.
Nemesis always has be seen to be a great even though its looking a little rough at the moment.

However if merlin keep up with there developments after the ride has been opened as we've sent with the swarms extra theming piece and all the developments with N:ST, then we could be on for a winner with sw7.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests