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The Moon
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:59 pm

But you are comparing the two with the riders body facing opposite directions, so the forces will be different, you placed the working for the invert cars as if the riders were upside down, which will obviously dramatically change the effectiveness of a track, because there are two different situations being investigated entirely.
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Instant Mix
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:03 pm

The Moon wrote:
But you are comparing the two with the riders body facing opposite directions, so the forces will be different, you placed the working for the invert cars as if the riders were upside down, which will obviously dramatically change the effectiveness of a track, because there are two different situations being investigated entirely.


Yes, that was the question was. The exterior loop was the constant factor in this. The inverted car had to be facing downward, else how else would it work in that theoretical scenario? You can't suddenly alter it to be an interior inverted loop which is essentially what would cause identical forces as the exterior sit-down coaster. I'm investigating the same situation, what you are proposing is in fact two situations.
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The Moon
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:14 pm

Yeah, that much is obvious. The question I was answering was the flyer question, which is different in the G directions, wheras inverts and sit downs produce similar effects in terms of G, positives and negatives predominantly, but flyers produce acceleration G's, a different axis, ie predominantly the x axis instead of the y.
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Instant Mix
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:24 pm

The Moon wrote:
Yeah, that much is obvious. The question I was answering was the flyer question, which is different in the G directions, wheras inverts and sit downs produce similar effects in terms of G, positives and negatives predominantly, but flyers produce acceleration G's, a different axis, ie predominantly the x axis instead of the y.


Relatively, yes. Physically, no.
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danwhit709
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:51 pm

Ok guys, can we please stop posting about all this physics stuff. most of us have no clue what you're on about, and nobody cares. Its not even about SW7 so can you please stop and get back to the discussion and speculation.

Thanks
 
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scott.smith
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:03 pm

Contact Sheldon Cooper he will know
 
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Kenzie2012
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:05 pm

Instant Mix wrote:
The Moon wrote:
Yeah, that much is obvious. The question I was answering was the flyer question, which is different in the G directions, wheras inverts and sit downs produce similar effects in terms of G, positives and negatives predominantly, but flyers produce acceleration G's, a different axis, ie predominantly the x axis instead of the y.


Relatively, yes. Physically, no.


Mate, I've have convos with The Moon before and even though he doesn't listen to you and knows jack, he always thinks he's right.
But you've completely lost me now and my head hurts...

scott.smith wrote:

Contact Sheldon Cooper he will know



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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:29 pm

Kenzie2012 wrote:
Instant Mix wrote:
The Moon wrote:
Yeah, that much is obvious. The question I was answering was the flyer question, which is different in the G directions, wheras inverts and sit downs produce similar effects in terms of G, positives and negatives predominantly, but flyers produce acceleration G's, a different axis, ie predominantly the x axis instead of the y.


Relatively, yes. Physically, no.


Mate, I've have convos with The Moon before and even though he doesn't listen to you and knows jack, he always thinks he's right.
But you've completely lost me now and my head hurts...

scott.smith wrote:

Contact Sheldon Cooper he will know



Yes mate.....


Yeah I kinda gathered that from him, seems quite stubborn.
I really wonder how this trick track will play out though, mechanically wise and safety mechanism wise... It will be a wonder to see it totally finished though
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The Terminator
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:40 pm

Engineering wise to get a piece of track to rotate is easy, forget about weight etc. modern gearboxes and drive mechanisms will make mince meat of it.
I've been working on a system this week that is miles more complex and has to deal with larger loads and it works great.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:24 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOAPSsCm ... _embedded#!

1:14 - showing that this can be done comfortably
Last edited by Wes on Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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spin_doctor
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:41 am

This system is just a way of demonstrating the lapbars. I cant imagine the system on SW7 being anything like this as it doesnt have a way to get on and off the track section, I'm interested to see how they do this, if they rotate around a central axis then the pivot point will be through the centre of the train, for this to work, the track would have to somehow disconnect from the main circuit. Notice in this video how their are bars trapping the coaster in the chamber on each end, how they will work around this will be interesting, there are a number of ways I can think of but what will really happen, who knows.
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Boz
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:17 am

spin_doctor wrote:
This system is just a way of demonstrating the lapbars. I cant imagine the system on SW7 being anything like this as it doesnt have a way to get on and off the track section, I'm interested to see how they do this, if they rotate around a central axis then the pivot point will be through the centre of the train, for this to work, the track would have to somehow disconnect from the main circuit. Notice in this video how their are bars trapping the coaster in the chamber on each end, how they will work around this will be interesting, there are a number of ways I can think of but what will really happen, who knows.


I'm working on a visual explanation of how this will work. Trust me, from an engineering/design point of view, it is incredibly simple.
 
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spin_doctor
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:05 am

You are? Haha, so am I.

I had two ideas, Iv just modelled the ride car at present, one idea is based on a ride that already exists, the other is more like the one demonsrated in the video. Interested to see if we have similar ideas.
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altontowerskid
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:28 am

From an engineers point-of-view it probably is simple, but I can imagine this will have a great effect on the GP and many enthusiasts too! I know I for one will be amazed to see how this works.

Looking forward to some of the brainboxes on the forum creating some models for us to see how it's possible :)
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:42 pm

While everyone is discussing the why's and wherefore's... one interesting thought came to mind. Potentially (and I use that word lightly), this might not just be breaking the current inversion record. It's feasible that it could continue to break any inversion record. If some Chinese park goes mental an builds a coaster with 16 inversions, Alton can just make SW7's trick track rotate a couple more times. It'd cock up throughput, but there don't seem to be any engineering reasons why it wouldn't be possible.
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Kenzie2012
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:09 pm

ponder wrote:
While everyone is discussing the why's and wherefore's... one interesting thought came to mind. Potentially (and I use that word lightly), this might not just be breaking the current inversion record. It's feasible that it could continue to break any inversion record. If some Chinese park goes mental an builds a coaster with 16 inversions, Alton can just make SW7's trick track rotate a couple more times. It'd cock up throughput, but there don't seem to be any engineering reasons why it wouldn't be possible.


Somebody else mentioned this the other day on this or the construction Forum..... It's so sneaky!!!
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altontowerskid
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:14 pm

ponder wrote:
While everyone is discussing the why's and wherefore's... one interesting thought came to mind. Potentially (and I use that word lightly), this might not just be breaking the current inversion record. It's feasible that it could continue to break any inversion record. If some Chinese park goes mental an builds a coaster with 16 inversions, Alton can just make SW7's trick track rotate a couple more times. It'd cock up throughput, but there don't seem to be any engineering reasons why it wouldn't be possible.


Love that point! :lol: Although not entirely likely, it would be hilarious to see them do this :)

A question about the rotating track. If this coaster is to have 14 inversions, 8 of which are on the plans external to the building, surely this trick-track cannot turn the car around 6 times in succession? The issue being wouldn't that effect get boring, uncomfortable and effect throughput too severely? Maybe more than one trick-track will be installed?
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:22 pm

providing they can fit a say 2 tight rolls into the building i duno like one starting as you round a tight curve so when theorecticly you would be exiting the turn your actualy inverted followed by a second roll you would only need to rotate 4 times. Im just basing this of boz' prediction
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:33 pm

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This is ULTRA rough...

You can't see it so good but there is a good 15ft hole below nearly the entire station. The track leaves the station at the ground level of construction about 18ft above the bottom of the pit.

It returns in to the station around 18ft above the exit point (34ft from the bottom of the pit).

The part of the station that doesn't have any excavation is the rear part of the building.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:52 pm

World's First Infinate* inverting coaster.

*Infinate in the fact that if the rumoured trick section is real, as stated by many people (including me /ego) it can always 1 up any record.
There gets to be an issue if this trick is used on another coaster, then you have two coasters both breaking the record.
Therefore it's safer to name it a Potentially Infinately inverting coaster.
Remove 'Potential' because the GP don't care about accuracy and ta-da you have a very exciting sounding description which is technically true.

Much like Oblivion is the first Vertical Drop Coaster.

I'm glad there's an exciting layout for the trick section to be part of because an 'Infinate Inverting Section' would be pretty lame on a simple layout. Oblivion can get away with a Simple layout because of the DROP and the HOLE. SW7 would be the SPINNY THING which is a restrictive and communial Gyroscope. I'm glad there's an impressive layout to go with it.

I prefer this form of world-firsts where a well-established coaster is used giving an exciting and interesting track, but also a unique and world-first aspect as well. But sometimes you need your Oblivions.
Last edited by scw55 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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