UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
rightbackgranty
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:19 am

They could, technically, build the ride as tall / high as they wanted to. My understanding is that the ride itself is in the area covered by a GDO (general development order) and as such requires no planning permission. However, out of kindness Alton provided a set of images demonstrating the high points of the ride in order to show that there wouldnt be an overly detrimental affect on the natural landscape. What needed permission was the station building.

We all know a certain family has objected to Oblivion on numerous occasions, and in all honesty I expect them to kick up a fuss again over this ride. I must admit I was slightly surprised at the location of the biggest thrill ride the park has built for a decade due to the run ins with the Ropers! It was a fairly common belief that any new ride in X sector would make use of the existing tent to avoid planning / noise issues.

If there were complaints with regard to noise I'd expect a long court case, but ultimately little to actually happen. Alton have the "we bring a lot of money into the local economy" argument which rightly prevails. The situation was different when the Thunderlooper was removed due to complaints - probably because of the rides fairly portable nature. This addition is a massive investment, and having secured permission will be fine.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:25 am

truckaddict wrote:
I don't know if it's in the right topic, but just imagine they built the ride to big :/ what would happen then, another season in waiting?


Huh?

Not sure if serious.
 
JW599
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:34 am

rightbackgranty wrote:
We all know a certain family has objected to Oblivion on numerous occasions, and in all honesty I expect them to kick up a fuss again over this ride. I must admit I was slightly surprised at the location of the biggest thrill ride the park has built for a decade due to the run ins with the Ropers! It was a fairly common belief that any new ride in X sector would make use of the existing tent to avoid planning / noise issues.

If there were complaints with regard to noise I'd expect a long court case, but ultimately little to actually happen. Alton have the "we bring a lot of money into the local economy" argument which rightly prevails. The situation was different when the Thunderlooper was removed due to complaints - probably because of the rides fairly portable nature. This addition is a massive investment, and having secured permission will be fine.


The type of track used is a lot less quieter than other rides. Both Oblivion and Nemesis have the B&M box-section spine that creates a roaring sound when a train passes over.

There is a noise report in the plans. I've not yet compared this to the other rides.

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aaron j gallimore
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:39 am

Any ideas where the queue line will start??
 
JW599
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:51 am

Here we go, this is from the official decision notice on the Staffordshire Moorlands site:

  7. The noise generated by the ride and passengers being operated under this permission shall not increase the background noise levels at the following locations
(a) 43 dB(A) at Alton Village (measured from cemetery/ramparts area to the north of the Castle Hill houses
(b) 50 dB(A) at Pink Lodge, Farley Lane, Farley
(c) At any other noise sensitive residential property (as defined in Planning Policy Guidance 24:Planning and Noise 1994) outside the curtilage of the Alton Towers Resort that formally reports intrusive noise to the Local Planning Authority.

For the purposes of a) to c) above and subsequent measurement/comparisons, all
daytime noise levels are to be expressed as LA90 [1 hour] with daytime hours being
from 07.00 to 23.00. For night time noise levels, these shall be expressed as LA90 [5 mins] with night time hours being from 23.00 to 07.00. All noise measurements taken to assess compliance with this condition shall be pursuant to the methodology of BS4142:1997. It shall be the responsibility of Alton Towers to carry out a noise monitoring exercise to determine the compliance status with parts a) and b) of this condition (i.e. as above) within four months of the ride being opened to the public and to submit the findings within the period to the Local Planning Authority for its written approval.
Reason: To ensure that the reasonable residential amenities of neighbouring properties are adequately protected from noise pollution.
 
rightbackgranty
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:54 am

JW599 wrote:
rightbackgranty wrote:
We all know a certain family has objected to Oblivion on numerous occasions, and in all honesty I expect them to kick up a fuss again over this ride. I must admit I was slightly surprised at the location of the biggest thrill ride the park has built for a decade due to the run ins with the Ropers! It was a fairly common belief that any new ride in X sector would make use of the existing tent to avoid planning / noise issues.

If there were complaints with regard to noise I'd expect a long court case, but ultimately little to actually happen. Alton have the "we bring a lot of money into the local economy" argument which rightly prevails. The situation was different when the Thunderlooper was removed due to complaints - probably because of the rides fairly portable nature. This addition is a massive investment, and having secured permission will be fine.


The type of track used is a lot less quieter than other rides. Both Oblivion and Nemesis have the B&M box-section spine that creates a roaring sound when a train passes over.

There is a noise report in the plans. I've not yet compared this to the other rides.


I quite agree - however, I still believe that the family will have objections after the ride has opened for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I seem to remember that the basis of their complaint was the levels created by riders screaming - which by the looks of things will probably be a problem with the new instillation  :lol: Secondly - even when Alton Towers made changes to Oblivion to come in line with recommendations (removing the "dont look down announcement" / toying with the idea of filling the track with sand / stopped the yearly firework celebrations) the Ropers persisted with their complaints and were asking for, ultimately, the removal of Oblivion. Though their case was eventually thrown out by the high courts, I think that a new installation will could well reignite the flames of their argument.

Saying that, they are well within their rights to complain. However, I don't think that there will be any impact on the ride.

The whole situations is hypothetical - "ifs, ands and buts". I am in  no doubt that Alton Towers have worked very closely with the planning committee with regards to sound levels and all will be fine.
Last edited by rightbackgranty on Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
JW599
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:03 am

aaron j gallimore wrote:
Any ideas where the queue line will start??


Behind the marmiser/spider thingy.

Image
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:05 am

at the end of the day this time round the "certain family" were already there, they were no doubt aware of this latest ride and its location, but the council gave permission, no one else objected either so its just them on there own this time. They have no doubt already given there concerns and views of the new ride and that no doubt would have been brought up into the council meetings and get Alton got the go ahead.. This time they were warned!
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clayj
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:01 pm

My idea of what I think & hope the Smiler will turn out like based upon TTF thinking/evidence in photos...

Image

Banked left turn/drop out of station into dark tunnel. There could possibly be a shock effect at the apex (bottom) of the drop too the left.. "the Girl sitting in chair" suddenly lit up out of the darkness by feature lighting creating a near miss ??

The train then banks further left into half of 1st inversion where there will be an animated smiler logo projected onto the horizontal wall infront of you (in construction photos) which increasing gets bigger, this giving effect of logo hitting/head chopper ? The train then rotates around track and completes 1st inversion through a heavily banked right too flat curve.

This is where I "think" the SE will be & my idea is as follows .... The train stops under maintenance shed section.  Id love to see the exit hole covered which would leave the space in the darkness.  This section of track could be one of two things;

a/. Washing machine effect - doesn't need explaining  but personally, I think this would be too much with the true inversions outside, too much of a unnecessary technical challenge & has kinda already been done with 13. So I prefer the simpler option b

b/. Vortex tunnel - the track is stationary inside a barrel (like hex) which rotates around the track (mechanically easier to produce & maintain then washing machine). Simple effect but works !

Whilst stationery, The smiler logo slowly apears out of the darkness infront of the rider, either the track (option A) or barrel (option B) starts to spin, disorientating the riders as the train is locked by brakes. There will be music, smoke, smells & lighting effects to orchestrate and add to the element... All of a sudden, everything crackles as if a technical fail. Everything goes off and plunged into darkness, at which point, the screen blocking track is removed, and the train is (preferably) launched out of the shed and up the hill giving just enough airtime at the top before entering the track we all know & about pictured above.

My inversion wish list is as follows;

1/. Hybrid Corkscrew/Barrel roll under station
2/. Zero G roll
3/. Immelmann
4/. Immelmann.
High speed flyover hill under spider's leg creating great airtime & head chopper
5&6/. Stafford knot (batwing)
7/. Corkscrew over flyover, through Immelmann & under spider's leg
Breakrun before vertical lift
Vertical lift followed by banked turn too left

8/. Zero G roll
9&10/. Sea-serpant roll under & through Immelmanns
another high speed flyover under spider's legs creating more great airtim & head choppers

11&12/. Cobra roll
13/. Barrel roll
14/. Corkscrew
Heavily banked curve return to break run
15/. sneeky Barrel roll
Break run & switch track then return to sanity a.k.a station & exit line lol

Once again, this is my speculation, i'd love to see it happen & as above, i think the washing machine isn't needed if all of the above 15 inversions happen !!
Last edited by clayj on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

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RCT3Bross
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:13 pm

clayj wrote:
My idea of what I think & hope the Smiler will turn out like based upon TTF thinking/evidence in photos...

Image

Banked left turn/drop out of station into dark tunnel. There could possibly be a shock effect at the apex (bottom) of the drop too the left.. "the Girl sitting in chair" suddenly lit up out of the darkness by feature lighting creating a near miss ??

The train then banks further left into half of 1st inversion where there will be an animated smiler logo projected onto the horizontal wall infront of you (in construction photos) which increasing gets bigger, this giving effect of logo hitting/head chopper ? The train then rotates around track and completes 1st inversion through a heavily banked right too flat curve.

This is where I "think" the SE will be & my idea is as follows .... The train stops under maintenance shed section.  Id love to see the exit hole covered which would leave the space in the darkness.  This section of track could be one of two things;

a/. Washing machine effect - doesn't need explaining  but personally, I think this would be too much with the true inversions outside, too much of a unnecessary technical challenge & has kinda already been done with 13. So I prefer the simpler option b

b/. Vortex tunnel - the track is stationary inside a barrel (like hex) which rotates around the track (mechanically easier to produce & maintain then washing machine). Simple effect but works !

Whilst stationery, The smiler logo slowly apears out of the darkness infront of the rider, either the track (option A) or barrel (option B) starts to spin, disorientating the riders as the train is locked by brakes. There will be music, smoke, smells & lighting effects to orchestrate and add to the element... All of a sudden, everything crackles as if a technical fail. Everything goes off and plunged into darkness, at which point, the screen blocking track is removed, and the train is (preferably) launched out of the shed and up the hill giving just enough airtime at the top before entering the track we all know & about pictured above.

My inversion wish list is as follows;

1/. Hybrid Corkscrew/Barrel roll under station
2/. Zero G roll
3/. Immelmann
4/. Immelmann.
High speed flyover hill under spider's leg creating great airtime & head chopper
5&6/. Stafford knot (batwing)
7/. Corkscrew over flyover, through Immelmann & under spider's leg
Breakrun before vertical lift
Vertical lift followed by banked turn too left

8/. Zero G roll
9&10/. Sea-serpant roll under & through Immelmanns
another high speed flyover under spider's legs creating more great airtim & head choppers

11&12/. Cobra roll
13/. Barrel roll
14/. Corkscrew
Heavily banked curve return to break run
15/. sneeky Barrel roll
Break run & switch track then return to sanity a.k.a station & exit line lol

Once again, this is my speculation, i'd love to see it happen & as above, i think the washing machine isn't needed if all of the above 15 inversions happen !!

May I ask where you got the idea of the 15th inversion? I did this before and on that point I got not a single Inversion. :)
Here are the 14 I found with their source ;):
Inversions of the Smiler:
1. Heart-line roll inside (Shown on the aerial updates).
(Lift hill 1.)
2. Inverted drop 1. (Shown on the aerial update, pictures and Game SP)
3. 8 Shaped inversion (Shown on the plans and in Game SP)
4. 8 Shaped inversion (Shown on the plans and in game SP)
5. Bat-wing (Shown in the aerial updates, pictures, game SP and plans)
6. Bat-wing (Shown in the aerial updates, pictures, game SP and plans)
7. Corkscrew (Shown in Game SP)
(Lift hill 2.)
8. Inverted drop 2. (Shown on the aerial updates, pictures and Game SP) (Still only support though)
9. Sea-serpent roll (Shown in plans and Game SP)
10. Sea-serpent roll (Shown in plans and Game SP)
11. Cobra roll (Shown in plans, game SP, pictures and aerial updates)
12. Cobra roll (Shown in plans, game SP, pictures and aerial updates)
13. Barrel roll (Shown in Game SP)
14. Barrel roll (Shown in Game SP)
(Brakes)
(Possible inversion between: 4 and 5 not sure)
This is pretty much the lay-out has some secret features that I didn't include.
Her my version:
Image
Yellow and blue are inversions. ;)
 
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Phild94
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:21 pm

RCT3Bross wrote:
clayj wrote:
My idea of what I think & hope the Smiler will turn out like based upon TTF thinking/evidence in photos...

Image

Banked left turn/drop out of station into dark tunnel. There could possibly be a shock effect at the apex (bottom) of the drop too the left.. "the Girl sitting in chair" suddenly lit up out of the darkness by feature lighting creating a near miss ??

The train then banks further left into half of 1st inversion where there will be an animated smiler logo projected onto the horizontal wall infront of you (in construction photos) which increasing gets bigger, this giving effect of logo hitting/head chopper ? The train then rotates around track and completes 1st inversion through a heavily banked right too flat curve.

This is where I "think" the SE will be & my idea is as follows .... The train stops under maintenance shed section.  Id love to see the exit hole covered which would leave the space in the darkness.  This section of track could be one of two things;

a/. Washing machine effect - doesn't need explaining  but personally, I think this would be too much with the true inversions outside, too much of a unnecessary technical challenge & has kinda already been done with 13. So I prefer the simpler option b

b/. Vortex tunnel - the track is stationary inside a barrel (like hex) which rotates around the track (mechanically easier to produce & maintain then washing machine). Simple effect but works !

Whilst stationery, The smiler logo slowly apears out of the darkness infront of the rider, either the track (option A) or barrel (option B) starts to spin, disorientating the riders as the train is locked by brakes. There will be music, smoke, smells & lighting effects to orchestrate and add to the element... All of a sudden, everything crackles as if a technical fail. Everything goes off and plunged into darkness, at which point, the screen blocking track is removed, and the train is (preferably) launched out of the shed and up the hill giving just enough airtime at the top before entering the track we all know & about pictured above.

My inversion wish list is as follows;

1/. Hybrid Corkscrew/Barrel roll under station
2/. Zero G roll
3/. Immelmann
4/. Immelmann.
High speed flyover hill under spider's leg creating great airtime & head chopper
5&6/. Stafford knot (batwing)
7/. Corkscrew over flyover, through Immelmann & under spider's leg
Breakrun before vertical lift
Vertical lift followed by banked turn too left

8/. Zero G roll
9&10/. Sea-serpant roll under & through Immelmanns
another high speed flyover under spider's legs creating more great airtim & head choppers

11&12/. Cobra roll
13/. Barrel roll
14/. Corkscrew
Heavily banked curve return to break run
15/. sneeky Barrel roll
Break run & switch track then return to sanity a.k.a station & exit line lol

Once again, this is my speculation, i'd love to see it happen & as above, i think the washing machine isn't needed if all of the above 15 inversions happen !!

May I ask where you got the idea of the 15th inversion? I did this before and on that point I got not a single Inversion. :)
Here are the 14 I found with their source ;):
Inversions of the Smiler:
1. Heart-line roll inside (Shown on the aerial updates).
(Lift hill 1.)
2. Inverted drop 1. (Shown on the aerial update, pictures and Game SP)
3. 8 Shaped inversion (Shown on the plans and in Game SP)
4. 8 Shaped inversion (Shown on the plans and in game SP)
5. Bat-wing (Shown in the aerial updates, pictures, game SP and plans)
6. Bat-wing (Shown in the aerial updates, pictures, game SP and plans)
7. Corkscrew (Shown in Game SP)
(Lift hill 2.)
8. Inverted drop 2. (Shown on the aerial updates, pictures and Game SP) (Still only support though)
9. Sea-serpent roll (Shown in plans and Game SP)
10. Sea-serpent roll (Shown in plans and Game SP)
11. Cobra roll (Shown in plans, game SP, pictures and aerial updates)
12. Cobra roll (Shown in plans, game SP, pictures and aerial updates)
13. Barrel roll (Shown in Game SP)
14. Barrel roll (Shown in Game SP)
(Brakes)
(Possible inversion between: 4 and 5 not sure)
This is pretty much the lay-out has some secret features that I didn't include.
Her my version:
Image
Yellow and blue are inversions. ;)


The 15th inversion is from the support which AT posted showing an inverted support where he has places his barrel roll into the break run

EDIT: Ignore the bit about an inverting support .... it's actually 2 supports waiting to be connected
Last edited by Phild94 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Credit to Lewis97 for the fantastic signature :D
 
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clayj
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:22 pm

RCT3Bross wrote:
May I ask where you got the idea of the 15th inversion? I did this before and on that point I got not a single Inversion. :)

If you look closely at the plans we both worked off, the banked curved return to break run doesn't run from corner to straight, there is a very slight s-bend (sorry for RCT terminology) before it runs straight. IMO there could only just be enough space to fit this last one in (hence why its a sneeky one) lol

As for the sources, I wrote enough on my ideas of the SE & also formatted the inversion list enough without adding the sources as I fell pretty much all inversions listed are justified by all the photos & info we have had so far :D
Image

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RCT3Bross
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:33 pm

Phild94 wrote:
RCT3Bross wrote:
clayj wrote:
My idea of what I think & hope the Smiler will turn out like based upon TTF thinking/evidence in photos...

Image

Banked left turn/drop out of station into dark tunnel. There could possibly be a shock effect at the apex (bottom) of the drop too the left.. "the Girl sitting in chair" suddenly lit up out of the darkness by feature lighting creating a near miss ??

The train then banks further left into half of 1st inversion where there will be an animated smiler logo projected onto the horizontal wall infront of you (in construction photos) which increasing gets bigger, this giving effect of logo hitting/head chopper ? The train then rotates around track and completes 1st inversion through a heavily banked right too flat curve.

This is where I "think" the SE will be & my idea is as follows .... The train stops under maintenance shed section.  Id love to see the exit hole covered which would leave the space in the darkness.  This section of track could be one of two things;

a/. Washing machine effect - doesn't need explaining  but personally, I think this would be too much with the true inversions outside, too much of a unnecessary technical challenge & has kinda already been done with 13. So I prefer the simpler option b

b/. Vortex tunnel - the track is stationary inside a barrel (like hex) which rotates around the track (mechanically easier to produce & maintain then washing machine). Simple effect but works !

Whilst stationery, The smiler logo slowly apears out of the darkness infront of the rider, either the track (option A) or barrel (option B) starts to spin, disorientating the riders as the train is locked by brakes. There will be music, smoke, smells & lighting effects to orchestrate and add to the element... All of a sudden, everything crackles as if a technical fail. Everything goes off and plunged into darkness, at which point, the screen blocking track is removed, and the train is (preferably) launched out of the shed and up the hill giving just enough airtime at the top before entering the track we all know & about pictured above.

My inversion wish list is as follows;

1/. Hybrid Corkscrew/Barrel roll under station
2/. Zero G roll
3/. Immelmann
4/. Immelmann.
High speed flyover hill under spider's leg creating great airtime & head chopper
5&6/. Stafford knot (batwing)
7/. Corkscrew over flyover, through Immelmann & under spider's leg
Breakrun before vertical lift
Vertical lift followed by banked turn too left

8/. Zero G roll
9&10/. Sea-serpant roll under & through Immelmanns
another high speed flyover under spider's legs creating more great airtim & head choppers

11&12/. Cobra roll
13/. Barrel roll
14/. Corkscrew
Heavily banked curve return to break run
15/. sneeky Barrel roll
Break run & switch track then return to sanity a.k.a station & exit line lol

Once again, this is my speculation, i'd love to see it happen & as above, i think the washing machine isn't needed if all of the above 15 inversions happen !!

May I ask where you got the idea of the 15th inversion? I did this before and on that point I got not a single Inversion. :)
Here are the 14 I found with their source ;):
Inversions of the Smiler:
1. Heart-line roll inside (Shown on the aerial updates).
(Lift hill 1.)
2. Inverted drop 1. (Shown on the aerial update, pictures and Game SP)
3. 8 Shaped inversion (Shown on the plans and in Game SP)
4. 8 Shaped inversion (Shown on the plans and in game SP)
5. Bat-wing (Shown in the aerial updates, pictures, game SP and plans)
6. Bat-wing (Shown in the aerial updates, pictures, game SP and plans)
7. Corkscrew (Shown in Game SP)
(Lift hill 2.)
8. Inverted drop 2. (Shown on the aerial updates, pictures and Game SP) (Still only support though)
9. Sea-serpent roll (Shown in plans and Game SP)
10. Sea-serpent roll (Shown in plans and Game SP)
11. Cobra roll (Shown in plans, game SP, pictures and aerial updates)
12. Cobra roll (Shown in plans, game SP, pictures and aerial updates)
13. Barrel roll (Shown in Game SP)
14. Barrel roll (Shown in Game SP)
(Brakes)
(Possible inversion between: 4 and 5 not sure)
This is pretty much the lay-out has some secret features that I didn't include.
Her my version:
Image
Yellow and blue are inversions. ;)


The 15th inversion is from the support which AT posted showing an inverted support where he has places his barrel roll into the break run

EDIT: Ignore the bit about an inverting support .... it's actually 2 supports waiting to be connected

Did you take a look at the aerial update yesterday? You can see that support is for the second inverting drop. ;)
clayj wrote:
RCT3Bross wrote:
May I ask where you got the idea of the 15th inversion? I did this before and on that point I got not a single Inversion. :)

If you look closely at the plans we both worked off, the banked curved return to break run doesn't run from corner to straight, there is a very slight s-bend (sorry for RCT terminology) before it runs straight. IMO there could only just be enough space to fit this last one in (hence why its a sneeky one) lol

As for the sources, I wrote enough on my ideas of the SE & also formatted the inversion list enough without adding the sources as I fell pretty much all inversions listed are justified by all the photos & info we have had so far :D

Yes there is a slight S bend there but if you look in the game sneak peak there is the barrel roll (inversion 14) followed by a turn straight into the brake thats why I wanted to know where you got the idea from. ;) Could be possible that they have that as a secret 15th. :O
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:49 pm

http://youtu.be/Bmui8MfOu5A?t=30s
i dont think this has been posted but look at what i just found on the smiler game trailer
Image
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:55 pm

browr020 wrote:
http://youtu.be/Bmui8MfOu5A?t=30s
i dont think this has been posted but look at what i just found on the smiler game trailer
Image

It was posted already. It's believed to be for the second inverted drop of the ride. ;)
 
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clayj
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:19 pm

RCT3Bross wrote:
Yes there is a slight S bend there but if you look in the game sneak peak there is the barrel roll (inversion 14) followed by a turn straight into the brake thats why I wanted to know where you got the idea from. ;) Could be possible that they have that as a secret 15th. :O


15 total = after (not including) Cobra,  Barrel role, Corkscrew, Barrel role

14 total = after (not including) Cobra, Fast hill over entrance, Corkscrew, Barrel role
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RCT3Bross
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:29 pm

clayj wrote:
RCT3Bross wrote:
Yes there is a slight S bend there but if you look in the game sneak peak there is the barrel roll (inversion 14) followed by a turn straight into the brake thats why I wanted to know where you got the idea from. ;) Could be possible that they have that as a secret 15th. :O


15 total = after (not including) Cobra,  Barrel role, Corkscrew, Barrel role

14 total = after (not including) Cobra, Barrel role, Corkscrew

Fixed it up like how the game sneak peak shows it here a link between 0:36 and 0:40. That shows that we get a double barrel roll after the cobra roll.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmui8MfOu5A
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:22 pm

this post is very interesting what i found on youtube and its john wardley talking on the radio about the smiler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOFruxEnpcw
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:32 pm

snakey904 wrote:
this post is very interesting what i found on youtube and its john wardley talking on the radio about the smiler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOFruxEnpcw


Already been covered.
 
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Joined: February 2013
Location: nottingham

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:38 pm

yes i have relised that now its been pointed out never mind i thought i remind everyone again :D

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