UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
Jammydodger
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:15 am

Just out of curiosity whats the average cost of a Euro fighter? I'm just a little confused, because of course Saw cost around £13 million, but then Takabisha cost 3bn Yen which is apparently £24 million, then there's the fact most of Saw's budget went on Theming and IP acquisition.  Depsite there being only a few hundered meters different in track length how come their budgets varied so much?

Considering how well Saw is themed on the inside on such a tight budget, £20m could go a LONG way. But then you look at the £24m Takabisha and think there's minimal theming there so what happened...?
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:26 am

^3 words, Linear. Synchrous. Motors.
Plus, new lift chain system, it's got more supports, 4 tube track, drop profile etc.
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Chaz
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:42 am

Estimated costs are very confusing. The budget usually includes Marketing costs and publicity stunts. For example, look at THE SWARM, the budget was huge but that included everything we saw in the press/on tv.

So, if the ride system is relatively cheap then a huge chunk of the budget will be PR and *hopefully* theming!


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The Moon
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:14 am

^It is not a cheap ride system. A cheap ride system is a Tivoli. I estimate the physical ride to cost about 15 mil, with 5 mil to play with for theming etc.
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JoshC.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:47 am

Saw's advertised £13.5mill includes everything - from the infilling of the land (which is bit cheap), to the ride hardware (which was a first for Gerstauler; dual loading / offloading) and the IP and theming.  So there's a lot going on with there really...

Look at what £18 million got with Swarm (I believe that doesn't include the infilling of land and a couple of things).  SW7's hardware could well be quite expensive, and the theming/landscaping looks to be very expensive as well...
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Mulcracker
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:22 pm

Sorry to sound stupid...but what's the SW7 budget again?  :P
 
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scott.smith
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:00 pm

Around 20million ;)
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:25 pm

Image

This was posted on Facebook earlier.

Enter & scan to ride it first :)
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tworandom
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:29 pm

got any clearer images so i can scan from my computer??
 
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JaykeAT
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:12 pm

Just to say there is no point comparing swarm to sw7 because swarm is a b&m and will cost more
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JoshC.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:21 pm

^Not necessarily.  Depending on the ride hardware used for SW7 (which could be largely dependent on the world first) could mean the ride itself is much more expensive than the standard Eurofighter, and may in fact be similar to a B&M's cost.  Anyway, we surely can compare the two - they have the same £20 million price tag, so we can see what that amount of money gets us..?


On a totally different topic, a bit of speculation about the station.  The station exterior seems to be aginst the 'clean and secret' X Sector theme, yet the posters we've seen so far and other bits of theming arguably keep in line with the X Sector theme.  So, maybe, the station interior totally juxtaposes the exterior, and is a clean and crisp, secret government area, just like X Sector.  The juxtaposition of a dilapidated building / clean and crisp, with a bit of a story, would work perfectly in my opinion.. :P
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Javs
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:25 pm

The final external building facade/rendering may differ from the plans anyway.  If you look at the station for The Swarm, the plans show something different to what we ended up with.
 
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Boz
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:09 pm

JoshC. wrote:
On a totally different topic, a bit of speculation about the station.  The station exterior seems to be aginst the 'clean and secret' X Sector theme, yet the posters we've seen so far and other bits of theming arguably keep in line with the X Sector theme.  So, maybe, the station interior totally juxtaposes the exterior, and is a clean and crisp, secret government area, just like X Sector.  The juxtaposition of a dilapidated building / clean and crisp, with a bit of a story, would work perfectly in my opinion.. :P


i think i get what you mean there. Kind of like Men In Black, where the headquarters is in a very plain, almost run down style building. seems feasable to me :)
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:55 pm

tworandom wrote:
got any clearer images so i can scan from my computer??


I'm heading on park tomorrow so i will see what I can do. :)
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:30 pm

Just a guess but surely that QR code just leads to the SW7 minisite?

Anyway, on the subject of budget, I think you're right with the fact Takabisha has a launch and updated track layout which covers a nice chunk of where that £24m went, but lets say Saw's hardware cost around £8-9m, SW7 has almost double its budget. I feel like there's definitely some sort of element, whether that be a physical mechanic, theming feature, or even another IP that is soaking up most of the budget?
 
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scott.smith
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:53 pm

I do not believe that the ride will have a IP, i'd rather the money be spent on the ride, however i would like to see a Sherlock Holmes ride in the park it wold be rather and intresting more importantly BRITISH, Duel retheme anyone?

Also just saw this from http://towersnerd.com/news/item.php?id=276, any thoughts?

Image
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Liam B
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:17 am

as you can see printed at the bottom of the poster it was a concept created by imagineerJohn. Not something released from Alton Towers :)
 
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scott.smith
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:19 pm

I Knew that i thought it was a worthwile image to share
 
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scott.smith
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:26 pm

My opinion about SW7's Model and Manufacturer
The park explicitly says it will be based on SAW: The Ride at Thorpe Park and will be the same type (Euro-Fighter) and manufacturer (Gerstlauer).  Its also completely reasonable as the layout resembles the recently opened Takabisha. So its safe to assume that Alton Towers is in fact building a Euro-Fighter right?

I think not.

In fact, I’m almost 100% convinced that this absolutely is not a Euro-Fighter.  That short and allegedly, “revealing”  couple of sentences also state that there will be a beyond vertical drop on the ride, when there obviously isn’t such an element shown in the diagrams.  Its understandable why the park would draw the comparison however; Alton Towers is notorious for having incredibly difficult neighbors.  Thus saying it will be reminiscent of one of the company’s other coasters allows for easy (and cheap) noise level testing to gather data that will appease the neighbors.

The more I think about it, the less a Euro-Fighter makes sense.  Alton Towers is striving for strong growth in the current decade, yet, why would the invest so much in such a low capacity style of coaster?  A Euro-Fighter has just 1-train capable of either 6 or 8 passengers.  And with no mid-course brake runs like other large-park Euro-Fighters, the capacity of this would suck.  And by suck, I’m guessing it wouldn’t exceed 500-600 people per an hour. Not what you want for a high profile ride as this will be.

Then just what exactly is Alton Towers building?

Well to be completely frank, I don’t know.  No one does, except for the lucky few who are involved in the design of this future masterpiece.  However, with the clues provided, I’ve made some educated guesses as to just what we might see from Alton Towers’ Secret Weapon 7.

Image

The track shown in the diagrams resembles that of Maurer Sohne X-Coasters. Photo of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, Universal Studios Florida

Far too often, concept art is in no way based on the final product.  The artist typically is not fully aware of what the track looks like, and even if they are, they skew the perception of the real thing by adding their own “artistic flavor”.  However, these planning documents and their schematics of the rides are very accurate.

Taking a look back at The Swarm’s plans, B&M’s signature box track can obviously be made out in the diagrams.  The track in SW7′s plans is not B&M, and is most definitely not Gerstlauer’s 3-spine track used on Euro-Fighters.  Instead, the track most resembles that of Maurer Sohne’s X-Coaster (as shown above of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit).

An X-Coaster system actually makes the most sense with the layout.  X-Coasters are known to have twisted layouts, such as the one shown, and also have a much higher capacity than Euro-Fighters; while they have only been built with 1-2 cars per train so far, Mauerer Sohne advertises that they can accompany up to 3-cars per a train, making for 18-passengers.  3-cars per a train would make plenty of sense considering the long stretches of track between blocks.

Image

The vertical track section for SW7 is reminiscent of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit's. Source of diagram: publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk

The most illusive aspect of the ride is the vertical track section.  All that is really known is that this section is that the coaster goes up this segment, and not down it.  Luckily, the diagrams also give a detailed look at the support system for this vertical section.  And supporting the track claim, the support structure exactly matches that of Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, and look nothing like the euroFighter vertical supports.

Another one of the wild rumors about SW7 before these plans were released was that it would be a launch coaster.  This actually proved to be another big aspect fueling the Euro-Fighter fire; Takabisha has both a launched section and vertical lift, as shown in SW7.  Yet all other evidence points to Maurer Sohne coaster, with a Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit style vertical lift.  And the initial incline segment at the beginning of the ride certainly does not look like a launch either.  So the whole launch rumor is bogus, right?

Not so fast. Alton Towers’ Secret Weapons have a history of being “firsts” for either Europe or the world.  Nemesis (SW3) was Europe’s first inverted coaster, Oblivion (SW4) was the world’s first dive machine, AIR (SW5) was the world’s first flying coaster, and Th13teen (SW6) was the world’s first vertical drop coaster.  So it makes sense that SW7 would have some noteworthy and gimmicky fact about it as well.

A Zierer vertical launch coaster was once planned for Alton Towers. Could SW7 feature one? Source: Mandi Coleman on Flickr.

Image

RCTLounge member ‘DJMean‘ pointed out that one of the old SW6 concepts was a Zierer tower launch coaster.  For those unfamiliar with the model, it is reminiscent of a Euro-Fighter (go figure), with a vertical LSM launch, simulating a space-shuttle like take off.

Which made me wonder, what happens if the they dusted off the old vertical launch concept?  After all, it would be a  first (only one Tower launch exists in the world) making it a likely candidate for a Secret Weapon.  However, its obvious that this isn’t a Zierer Launch Tower coaster either.  So could it be a vertical launch?

Image

Maurer Sohne's concept art for the advertised vertical launch SkyLoop Source: www.maurer-rides.com

Coincidentally, Maurer Sohne actually does make vertical launch coasters, or at least advertises that they are capable of doing so.  The manufacturer states that they are capable of building a 1-g, 27 mph, 151 foot vertical launch.  And with SW7 standing at  just 100 feet, these statistics more than meet the qualifications.  While they are only shown for the SkyLoop model, I see no reason why it couldn’t be used on a more standard X-Coaster.

I’m no engineer or smart university student but the transition from the long straight away to the vertical bit does not look passenger friendly if it was taken immediately after a launch.  Instead, I would guess that it is actual a 2-block brake run.  1 block slowing the coaster down, the other a waiting section before slowly going up the transition vertical and then launching towards the sky.  Sounds like the icing on this glorious cake to me.

So to conclude, here is my prediction for Secret Weapon 7:
•A Maurer Sohne X-Coaster
•3, 6 passenger X-Cars per train
•8-9 inversions
•Begins with a standard incline lift hill
•Europe’s first vertical launch coaster

What an awfully long and drawn out post, when the above bullet points outline the entire purpose of this write-up.  However, I know there will be a lot of nay-sayers and I just wanted to lay down the evidence.  None the less, I am very excited to see Alton Towers obviously putting so much thought and effort into what looks to be an amazing secret weapon, especially after the incredibly disappointing Secret Weapon 6.  With construction not scheduled to begin until September 2012, it may be a long time before we get all the details on the new attraction, but at least we have an idea of what to expect
 
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The Moon
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:39 am

The track look on the plans is no good in determining the manufacturer. It has been proven to be the Schwartzkopf track style from a Nolimits package. The pro version of which Gerstlaur and Maurer use in concept and plan documents. What cements it as Gerst for me is two things. Noise tests on Saw and the heartlining, which points to wide, stubby cars. Eurofighter 8 seat. Maybe I will be wrong, and if I am I don't mind, I love both.
THC selectively targets and destroys tumor cells while leaving healthy cells unscathed. Conventional chemotherapy drugs, by contrast, are highly toxic; they indiscriminately damage the brain and body.

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