UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
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djtintin1
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:11 pm

I'm not so sure this is a Gertlauer Coaster - heres my reasons ---

http://parkthoughts.com/2012/01/07/alton-towers-secret-weapon-7-revealed/
 
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moog666
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:29 pm

This article does raise a pursuasive argument. But I personally think that Maurer just dont have a big enough track record to be considered for a secret weapon.

Nemesis94 wrote:
With regards a POV, I may have a look at doing an updated one tomorrow. If not, it may not be until the weekend.


PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!
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If you must make jokes about Steve Jobs, Try to keep them PC.
 
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smudge.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:55 pm

djtintin1 wrote:
I'm not so sure this is a Gertlauer Coaster - heres my reasons ---

http://parkthoughts.com/2012/01/07/alton-towers-secret-weapon-7-revealed/


This is very interesting - and indeed very valid reasoning. It does make one wonder why we autmoatically take that one sentence in the planning as gospel, when other parts of the application have been proved to be false.

Although Maurer dont have a big track record, more the reason to show the world that they can produce something special.

Yes RRR has a LOT of problems (and personally dont rate it at all), but surely if we, the public, can see them, surely the Manufacturer can, and can find ways of overcoming them!

Alton wouldn't use any Manufacturer if they thought there would be reliability issues (more than normal anyway) or the ride system was of poor quality.
 
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James
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:01 pm

djtintin1 wrote:
I'm not so sure this is a Gertlauer Coaster - heres my reasons ---

http://parkthoughts.com/2012/01/07/alton-towers-secret-weapon-7-revealed/

Interesting article, you do post some valid points - some of which have already been noted by other members too.

Just one thing I want to pick on.
The Towers Times has a great article about the planning of Dark Forest...

It's TowersTimes (without the space as shown) not The Towers Times:)

I can't really say much, although SW7 is a Gerstlauer coaster. However, whether it is an Eurofighter or not is still up for debate.
Last edited by James on Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Blaze

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:05 pm

It says Saw is the same manufacturer. Instead of debating the 'beyond vertcal drop' bit, focus on the big picture, which clearly states it's a Gerstlauer. The shaping and style is just pure gerstlauer, let's just accept it is one. :)
 
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smudge.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:12 pm

Blaze wrote:
It says Saw is the same manufacturer. Instead of debating the 'beyond vertcal drop' bit, focus on the big picture, which clearly states it's a Gerstlauer. The shaping and style is just pure gerstlauer, let's just accept it is one. :)


for now...  :?
 
Blaze

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:17 pm

Some people won't be happy until they see Gerstlauer on the box. I'm not going to paint them with the same brush Intamin-deniers were last time round, but it does say Gerstlauer on the plans.
 
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smudge.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:30 pm

It does say 'Sonic Screwball' and 'Beyond vertical drop' on the plans too which is my only reason to be slightly reluctant to say its DEFINATELY Gerstlauer. Although it DOES say it will be, and you cant really argue when it is there in black and white.

... BUT, plans do tend to say anything that will make them more likely to have no, or very little opposition. And comparing it to SAW would make it sound less like a big/noisy coaster surely?

Alton could easily say they changed their mind on the manufacturer, as long as sound levels were similar.

I find it hard to imagine Alton would give away details like this so early when the first we knew of oblivions manufacturer was when we saw the track. (for me anyway)
Last edited by smudge. on Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Charlee
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:31 pm

djtintin1 wrote:
I'm not so sure this is a Gertlauer Coaster - heres my reasons ---

http://parkthoughts.com/2012/01/07/alton-towers-secret-weapon-7-revealed/


Thank you for posting this, I couldn't agree more! :lol:
I used to think I knew a lot about coasters, but then I joined this forum.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:41 pm

djtintin1 wrote:
I'm not so sure this is a Gertlauer Coaster - heres my reasons ---

http://parkthoughts.com/2012/01/07/alton-towers-secret-weapon-7-revealed/


Two more reasons it could be a Maurer...

Reason 1: Late 2011 Maurer listed a concept mobius coaster to their racing line up. Whilst not under the X Car layouts its clear evidence that Maurer have been developing mobius concepts and layouts.

See concept here on page 4 of the booklet or page 3 of your PDF viewer: http://www.maurer-rides.com/files/amuse ... s_2011.pdf

Reason 2: The track resembles the Maurer coaster "Freischütz" at Bayern Park.  See the following link for track images: http://rcdb.com/9100.htm?p=0

And of course consider only Maurer have ever produced a rollercoaster with a vertical lift with those supports elements. Comparing Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit to the plans they are so similar with their lift structure.

HOWEVER... I'd much prefer a new style Eurofighter or a Gerstlauer prototype based on the Eurofighter. Comparing the SW7 layout with the new Eurofighter in Japan (Takibisha) I still feel like this will be a Gerstlauer.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:56 pm

Actually if you look at the track on the plans and Maurer track they are quite different. The primary difference is the cross ties on Maurer track is a flat panel type structure. The track cross ties on the plans is a more triangular shape. Also the spine of Maurer track sits quite far below the rails which is not the case on the plans.

The closest resemblance to the plans track us actually Swarzkopf :)

Obviously we aim to have as much evidence as we can when stating something is confirmed on TT. Although nothing we can do is fool-proof we are fairly happy to say this is a Gerst :)
 
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smudge.
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:02 pm

^ Good enough for me....! Not only would you not confirm it on here, but I'm assuming most of you know someone 'in the know' so to speak.  ;)
 
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Nightfall
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:31 pm

djtintin1 wrote:
I'm not so sure this is a Gertlauer Coaster - heres my reasons ---

http://parkthoughts.com/2012/01/07/alton-towers-secret-weapon-7-revealed/


An interesting read and I have to admit the vertical supports do match those of an X-Car.

However they also match those on the Euro-fighter and most of the other supports are not types that are usually seen on an X-Car. This is something I only noticed recently. Having checked the X-Car model there seem to be very few "Lose Ends". If you're wondering what I mean by that here is an example:

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Hollywood Rip, Ride, Rockit, A typical X-Car support.

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The Supports on Rage: Notice that the section at the top is another section of the support placed on top, creating a lose end. While some X-Cars do have these supports there more common in Euro-fighters and SW7 has them all over the place

The X-Car has another property I am yet to find on the plans. In areas where the cart is under a lot of force the X-Car track becomes more of an oval to take the load.

Image

I can't spot anything like this for SW7. It could be that they don't include such details on the plans but given what they do show it seems odd that such aspects wouldn't be included.

Personally I believe ether one of us could be right but as the plans say Gerstlauer that's who I'm sticking with. It is not out of the question that they have decided to change their track design. As I pointed out a while back they have changed many aspects of the Euro-fighter already.
Last edited by Nightfall on Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Slev86
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:23 pm

Could this be the worlds first upside down launched coaster.

I.e. Small dive from station platform. Turn to the left. Launch along the straight and re-write itself just before leaving the station.

How possible is this and would it be a first??
 
Blaze

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:35 pm

Possible, but the reason it's not been done is it would be hideously unpleasant. Plus there isn't room to launch and right itself in time. Doubtfull the lift/launch would be straight if it already had speed.
 
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Rollercoasters4Life
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:37 pm

djtintin1 wrote:
I'm not so sure this is a Gertlauer Coaster - heres my reasons ---

http://parkthoughts.com/2012/01/07/alton-towers-secret-weapon-7-revealed/


Now so far I have gone along with this being a Gerstlauer in some form or another, but since you posted that link I am in two minds. There are very good points bought up and the most interesting to me is the vertical launch from Maurer Sohne on their SkyLoop coasters. Now that could be the Worlds First for Alton Towers and instead of it being on a SkyLoop it could have been adapted to be put on this ride. It also corresponds with the concept art below:

Image

The only thing with that concept art is that the trains look like Eurofighter ones and not X-car ones - but then again its concept art and plans and maybe the manufacturers change from time to time.

Another point is the Vertical Lift/Launch tower looks just like Rip Ride Rocket and not like other Eurofighter lifts:

Image

And some of the plans on the ride and the track type itself remind me of Freischütz at Bayern Park:

Image

Now I know the noise document says its the same manufacturer and whatnot, but with these new discoveries I am really not sure now. Personally I have only been on one X-Car and that was G-Force at Drayton Manor and I didn't mind it. Now the capacity on a X-Car is better, but people seem to not like X-Cars that much and want it to be Gerstlauer with maybe a new train type and track type.

I, for one cannot wait for 2013!
Image
 
Blaze

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:40 pm

Gerstlauer have never made a lift life this before though. They always go straight into the beyond vertical drop, so it's not as simple as saying it isn't them because the structure is a bit different.
 
ry1996
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:45 pm

Is that even real concept art?, since the train is from a Zierer, not Maurer or even Gerstlauer.
Image
 
Blaze

Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:48 pm

It was concept art for Dark Forest.
 
Morgano
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Re: The Smiler - Speculation

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:48 pm

As far as I'm aware Gerstlauer haven't produced anything larger capacity than a single car for a steel coaster (excluding junior coasters). Hence why all there rides (steel spinning, steel launch and steel eurofighter) have thin track. I would imagine this is seriously holding them back from expanding to clients who need a very large capacity. Based on the noise document and Altons admissions I think it's clear this will be a prototype for Gerstlauer.

Consider also that the Eurofighter as it is, is evolving. Takibisha clearly shows that Gerstlauer would like to push further boundaries with the Eurofighter. I think Takibisha clearly shows a problem with the vision, CAPACITY! The ride is much longer than SAW which has a 1000 p/ph capacity. I imagine Takibisha suffers enormously from capacity issues and SW7 looks like it pushes the boundaries even further.

The solution for Gerstlauer? A two car Eurofighter or prototype based on a Eurofighter car, this would give a capacity of 16 people per train or for a 2 car 6 seater a capacity of 12 which still an improvement over 6 or 8 of the current Eurofighter standard.

This sort of improvement to capacity would require both stronger track and a larger vertical lift hill (akin to Hollywood Rip Ride Rocket). I also believe that the second lift will not be a launch and the gradient of the ramp to the lift would suit a multi car train with small carriages (2x Eurofighter trains for example).

I don't think such a tight track would work with anything larger than 2 carriages but I definetely think the whole design is to accomodate new trains and a bigger capacity. I would imagine this is one of Gerstlauer's major issues of late and SW7 should bring about the future of high capacity for them!
Last edited by Morgano on Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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