UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
aircanman
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:34 pm

andzdrew wrote:
All I'm saying is that once there's an emergency, the ride by law has to stop immediately, until deemed safe... Once deemed safe there's no need to evacuate anymore...


There is no law here. You don't know what you are talking about. It's liability, if the safety mechs are not there, AT can be held liable.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:38 pm

aircanman wrote:
andzdrew wrote:
All I'm saying is that once there's an emergency, the ride by law has to stop immediately, until deemed safe... Once deemed safe there's no need to evacuate anymore...


There is no law here. You don't know what you are talking about. It's liability, if the safety mechs are not there, AT can be held liable.


There are regulations in place in the UK that state no machinery is to be turned back on once the emergency stop has been pressed, until deemed safe. If the emergency stop actually causes a train to roll back down the hill then it's not exactly an emergency stop is it, and they legally have to have one in the UK, by law.
 
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zippy
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:47 pm

andzdrew wrote:
aircanman wrote:
andzdrew wrote:
All I'm saying is that once there's an emergency, the ride by law has to stop immediately, until deemed safe... Once deemed safe there's no need to evacuate anymore...


There is no law here. You don't know what you are talking about. It's liability, if the safety mechs are not there, AT can be held liable.


There are regulations in place in the UK that state no machinery is to be turned back on once the emergency stop has been pressed, until deemed safe. If the emergency stop actually causes a train to roll back down the hill then it's not exactly an emergency stop is it, and they legally have to have one in the UK, by law.

So how do you immediately stop a train that has already gone over the top of either lift hill? The train descending the lift hill to a safe stop at the bottom is no more dangerous than a train already in motion that can't stop until the next brake.

As a designer in the construction industry I would expect that CDM laws would put a responsibility on the designers of the ride, and the end user (Alton Towers) to design in the safest possible methods for maintenance and safe evacuation in emergency, as is the case for anything constructed in the UK. If they have deemed by risk assessment that the safest method is to drop the train slowly to the bottom of the lift hill, that is what they will do. What works best on one roller coaster may not work best for another for various possible reasons, and the suggestion about access to the lift hills on the smiler seemed fairly logical to me
 
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Chaz
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:48 pm

andzdrew wrote:
aircanman wrote:
andzdrew wrote:
All I'm saying is that once there's an emergency, the ride by law has to stop immediately, until deemed safe... Once deemed safe there's no need to evacuate anymore...


There is no law here. You don't know what you are talking about. It's liability, if the safety mechs are not there, AT can be held liable.


There are regulations in place in the UK that state no machinery is to be turned back on once the emergency stop has been pressed, until deemed safe. If the emergency stop actually causes a train to roll back down the hill then it's not exactly an emergency stop is it, and they legally have to have one in the UK, by law.


In an E-stop the train would be held on (by the chain) and the people evacuated from there. If it is safe to lower it would lower backwards.

The fins act as anti-rollbacks, every lift hill has these, The Smiler's are just a different/new way of doing it.

End of. :P
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jbuckton18
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:54 pm

Any chance you guys can make a forum about the safety laws for rollercoasters ? It's just a lot of people like to know what's going on with construction ! as you know, it's a construction forum :/
Some say they've seen angels, Ive seen The Smiler - That's enough
 
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A
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:57 pm

Just signed up to say this - I can't see the fins being anything other than an anti rollback system, we have seen there is no way for the fins to retract so surely they would do the same job as a ratchet, holding the train if a rollback was to occur :)
I'm not completely useless, I can be used as a bad example :P
 
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:00 pm

Chaz wrote:
andzdrew wrote:
aircanman wrote:
andzdrew wrote:
All I'm saying is that once there's an emergency, the ride by law has to stop immediately, until deemed safe... Once deemed safe there's no need to evacuate anymore...


There is no law here. You don't know what you are talking about. It's liability, if the safety mechs are not there, AT can be held liable.


There are regulations in place in the UK that state no machinery is to be turned back on once the emergency stop has been pressed, until deemed safe. If the emergency stop actually causes a train to roll back down the hill then it's not exactly an emergency stop is it, and they legally have to have one in the UK, by law.


In an E-stop the train would be held  (by the chain) it's Dee the people evacuated from there. If it is safe to lower it would lower backwards.

The fins act as anti-rollbacks, every lift hill has these, The Smiler's are just a different/new way of doing it.

End of. :P


As i said above, if its deemed safe to roll the train back, why not just carry on as normal
 
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:01 pm

A wrote:
Just signed up to say this - I can't see the fins being anything other than an anti rollback system, we have seen there is no way for the fins to retract so surely they would do the same job as a ratchet, holding the train if a rollback was to occur :)

Problem is these fins don't hold the train stationary, they would allow the train to gather quite a speed before they kicked in
 
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Chaz
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:04 pm

andzdrew wrote:
A wrote:
Just signed up to say this - I can't see the fins being anything other than an anti rollback system, we have seen there is no way for the fins to retract so surely they would do the same job as a ratchet, holding the train if a rollback was to occur :)

Problem is these fins don't hold the train stationary, they would allow the train to gather quite a speed before they kicked in


But in a breakdown/E-stop the train would still be attached to the chain and therefore would not roll back. The fins are there in case the train comes away from the chain, then it would roll back at a stupidly fast speed - causing issues.

Is this conversation really still happening. The fins replace the normal/common anti-rollbacks due to noise issues.
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:10 pm

Roller coaster law is boring, can we get back to page 43,065 of fin discussion please?
I need my fix of heated fin debate to psyche me up for my tour of Basingstoke fin museum on Sunday
 
WhatARoaster
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:17 pm

andzdrew wrote:
A wrote:
Just signed up to say this - I can't see the fins being anything other than an anti rollback system, we have seen there is no way for the fins to retract so surely they would do the same job as a ratchet, holding the train if a rollback was to occur :)

Problem is these fins don't hold the train stationary, they would allow the train to gather quite a speed before they kicked in


unless they are like vekomas anti roll  back.
 
Aidan Lowe
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:24 pm

aircanman wrote:


Even more brave when he reached the pinnacle of the loop.

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Credit @andrevock
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dazza4783
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:31 pm

So who else thinks we might see some testing in the next week or so?
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arE Y0u R3AdY t0 Sm1Le?
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 pm

Altitude wrote:
arE Y0u R3AdY t0 Sm1Le? wrote:
As we said this is a new gen gurest sadly we haven't seen anything mind blowing yet but time will tell.


Are the duelling drops, vertical lift and 14 inversions not enough for you?


I did not mean the ride its self  :roll: the ride is AMAZING aha I meant that when this was stated as a guests #2 I was excepting amazing cars or a new way to build track. But nothing has seem to be different with how they build it. ( obviously now the lifts are new ) I just meant guerst have done nothing mind blowing with there new #2 editions if you forget that statement from guerst and just think about the layout and design of the track then yes it is mind blowing!! It's one of the best coaster ever aha. :D you just misread what I said ;-)
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jbuckton18
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:49 pm

dazza4783 wrote:
So who else thinks we might see some testing in the next week or so?


Next week or week after i'd imagine yeh ! Gotta be done soon because of the short amount of time there is left before opening ! And the trains are all in the maintenance shed all ready !
Some say they've seen angels, Ive seen The Smiler - That's enough
 
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:30 pm

Expect a mini update later on from our resident snapper - Roodlesnouter. He is currently on park:

Roodlesnouter (posted 3:48PM) wrote:
On park now but not a whole load happening, small update later.


So hopefully things will have picked up and some visible differences will of happened for him to snap up and show us all later.
Last edited by Rollercoasters4Life on Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:42 pm

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Vertical lift chain going in :)
 
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Boz
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:11 pm

can I remind everyone, that this topic is not the place to speculate on the brake fins, please discuss your ideas on that in the Speculation topic, Please keep all posts in this topic relevant to the progress of construction.

I have moved Dylan's post about the interview, into the relevant topic found here.
 
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clayj
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:15 pm

jbuckton18 wrote:
Just thought it would be a good idea to incorporate the in-ride photo section within 'The Flasher' !


Good idea aesthetically, but can't see it happening unfortunately due to the combination of lenses needed to get multiple focused shots mixed with the quality of the flash for themeing  :s

Tryst wrote:
and the tight arrangement of the track. There are going to be a lot of head choppers!


Have to agree there... Most rides have a couple which are obvious to look out for, especially if your a coaster geek. But I honestly think that even the most seasons geek will still be surprised by the sheer amount of hidden head choppers on this ride :D

JonoD wrote:
With a roller coaster such as this, and being so twisted will make access to the lifts a logistical nightmare. It would be really difficult to get cherry pickers close to the lift hills to evacuate them (what with the 2nd lift being buried within the coaster's circuit and needing to clear crowds out of the way).

What would be an easy way around this? Use gravity. magnetic braking technology on coasters now is well established having been used on launched coasters for years. So instead of wasting all that time fiddling around with cherry pickers and such, why not simply let the train do a 'rollback' to set it on the horizontal? Reasons?:

-It's faster and easier. Instead of faffing around and getting riders off on the lift hills, simply let it roll back to the ground with brakes to slow it down and stop it. Release your passengers on the bottom on the horizontal. This would simplify and speed up the evacuation time enormously.

-It's safer for evacuation crews and riders. Much like the reasons above, rescuing people off the vertical lift would be an extremely precarious situation. There's no room for a cherry picker to come in and do the job, and the passengers are all lying on their backs. Why not eliminate this risk entirely by doing the rescue when the train is at the bottom where they can alight with minimal chance of danger from falling from a great height?


At least... that's what seems to be the most logical idea to me.


The phrase "nail, head, hit" & "on the" comes to mind :D

andzdrew wrote:
All I'm saying is that once there's an emergency, the ride by law has to stop immediately, until deemed safe... Once deemed safe there's no need to evacuate anymore...


Yes, stop immediately, but stop immediately at the safest point in a controlled manor - which would be at the bottom of the hill so the fins will allow a train to slowly descend backwards to the bottom of the hill for evacuation regardless of the status of the power, chain etc.

P.S. Sorry Boz, just seen your post, but left this on as replying to others & still technically covers construction. Maybe best to make a fin topic which would remove it from here all together ?
Last edited by clayj on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sw7nutter
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:29 pm

Why have they stepped up construction in the last few weeks. why weren't they doing this pace before becuse they must have known they were behind.
On a side note its nice to see its almost finished
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