UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
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Danscott22
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 7:05 am

Wish everyone would seriously stop this! There's been nothing about tomorrow, so it could well open, you're thinking about it too much!
 
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tallicay2k
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 8:28 am

Always look on the bright side of life...do do, do do do do do do  ;)
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SEEK...AND...DESTROY
 
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youarecorrectsir
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 8:33 am

I had a dream last night I went to Alton Towers to check out The Smiler being built... Looked over towards oblivion and they were installing 2 dive loops in the tunnel o_O

A man can dream.
"Everybody dies, but not everybody lives"
 
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GoldWolf
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 8:45 am

Oblividoom wrote:
MatthewR1990 wrote:
Whats the difference between valleying & stalling? My common sense tells me a stall is when it gets stuck, valleying is when it doesn't make it and then rolls backwards through the track and then forwards again until it eventually rests at its lowest point. (Like a valley)


You've answered your own question.

Stalling is a complete stop, valleying is when the coaster train moves back and forth then rests. The physics of the two are very different, so this explains the delay if it did valley.

The coaster is not designed to go backwards on this track, so that may have caused major damage to the track and to the wheels as the weight distribution/resultant forces will have been ALL WRONG.


I think Oblividoom has got the cause of the problem spot on. I think they were testing the ride with the wheels that caused more friction and were slower, which meant that the train couldn't reach the next peak and it had to go backwards. This is what caused the damage to the track. Not because the track has been constructed incorrectly. Just look at the first testing videos that have been linked in this forum to see the believability of this.
 
deeve
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 8:52 am

Some points to make.

1. Some poor person working a kiosk in the park would not have a clue why the Smiler is busted.
2. If the ride opened and someone got hurt and died thats the worst outcome.
3. The park have offered concessions to those who have made special tríps to ride the Smiler
4. I have been to plenty of parks and big rides have been down. Stealth at thorpe park worse offender.

All Good things to those who wait.
 
richard.s
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 9:53 am

GoldWolf wrote:
Oblividoom wrote:
MatthewR1990 wrote:
Whats the difference between valleying & stalling? My common sense tells me a stall is when it gets stuck, valleying is when it doesn't make it and then rolls backwards through the track and then forwards again until it eventually rests at its lowest point. (Like a valley)


You've answered your own question.

Stalling is a complete stop, valleying is when the coaster train moves back and forth then rests. The physics of the two are very different, so this explains the delay if it did valley.

The coaster is not designed to go backwards on this track, so that may have caused major damage to the track and to the wheels as the weight distribution/resultant forces will have been ALL WRONG.


I think Oblividoom has got the cause of the problem spot on. I think they were testing the ride with the wheels that caused more friction and were slower, which meant that the train couldn't reach the next peak and it had to go backwards. This is what caused the damage to the track. Not because the track has been constructed incorrectly. Just look at the first testing videos that have been linked in this forum to see the believability of this.


You honestly think that an £18m coaster is not designed to handle a common problem experienced by many coasters, probably hundreds/thousands of times over the years?

That would be similar to saying the car you drive is not designed to skid and will pull itself apart when it does.

These coasters are designed to freewheel - if they roll through the track forwards, they roll through it backwards. Think about it.
 
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Cookie Monster
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 10:02 am

richard.s wrote:
GoldWolf wrote:
Oblividoom wrote:
MatthewR1990 wrote:
Whats the difference between valleying & stalling? My common sense tells me a stall is when it gets stuck, valleying is when it doesn't make it and then rolls backwards through the track and then forwards again until it eventually rests at its lowest point. (Like a valley)


You've answered your own question.

Stalling is a complete stop, valleying is when the coaster train moves back and forth then rests. The physics of the two are very different, so this explains the delay if it did valley.

The coaster is not designed to go backwards on this track, so that may have caused major damage to the track and to the wheels as the weight distribution/resultant forces will have been ALL WRONG.


I think Oblividoom has got the cause of the problem spot on. I think they were testing the ride with the wheels that caused more friction and were slower, which meant that the train couldn't reach the next peak and it had to go backwards. This is what caused the damage to the track. Not because the track has been constructed incorrectly. Just look at the first testing videos that have been linked in this forum to see the believability of this.


You honestly think that an £18m coaster is not designed to handle a common problem experienced by many coasters, probably hundreds/thousands of times over the years?

That would be similar to saying the car you drive is not designed to skid and will pull itself apart when it does.

These coasters are designed to freewheel - if they roll through the track forwards, they roll through it backwards. Think about it.

Just a thought but are 13's wheels normal or are they specially made? as if there normal the smiler would have no problem with going backwards when valleying
Image
 
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Jadiibeth
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 10:10 am

Jmurphy55 wrote:
Absolute joke.
Thoroughly annoyed with this now.
If a 'major incident has occurred then they need to say that and not let us read about it third hand through an unofficial website.
I appreciate that it doesn't help market the ride, but this current day by day let down is hardly helping them either is it?
Starting to think it won't ever open to be honest.
Something is clearly seriously wrong here.


Just to say.... why would alton say what said major incident is? I highly doubt they would for both reputation and with relationships with theother companies involved with the ride .. ie. Gerst etc. And if you seriously believe that enthusiats deserve a right to be told then thats barmy..... we are general public? Depending on what happened and the scale oof the incident, the public will never be none the wiser. As they should be.
Nobody knows what the incident was. Personally I think the track damage is something that happened because of the incident, and isnt the cause or anything as some have made out, but im happy never knowing.
 
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RCandrew
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 10:33 am

deeve wrote:
Some points to make.

1. Some poor person working a kiosk in the park would not have a clue why the Smiler is busted.
2. If the ride opened and someone got hurt and died thats the worst outcome.
3. The park have offered concessions to those who have made special tríps to ride the Smiler
4. I have been to plenty of parks and big rides have been down. Stealth at thorpe park worse offender.

All Good things to those who wait.


Stealth was the one I wanted to ride most, it was shut :(

But I wasn't bothered five minutes after noticing!
 
richard.s
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 10:45 am

cookejj1 wrote:
richard.s wrote:
GoldWolf wrote:
Oblividoom wrote:
MatthewR1990 wrote:
Whats the difference between valleying & stalling? My common sense tells me a stall is when it gets stuck, valleying is when it doesn't make it and then rolls backwards through the track and then forwards again until it eventually rests at its lowest point. (Like a valley)


You've answered your own question.

Stalling is a complete stop, valleying is when the coaster train moves back and forth then rests. The physics of the two are very different, so this explains the delay if it did valley.

The coaster is not designed to go backwards on this track, so that may have caused major damage to the track and to the wheels as the weight distribution/resultant forces will have been ALL WRONG.


I think Oblividoom has got the cause of the problem spot on. I think they were testing the ride with the wheels that caused more friction and were slower, which meant that the train couldn't reach the next peak and it had to go backwards. This is what caused the damage to the track. Not because the track has been constructed incorrectly. Just look at the first testing videos that have been linked in this forum to see the believability of this.


You honestly think that an £18m coaster is not designed to handle a common problem experienced by many coasters, probably hundreds/thousands of times over the years?

That would be similar to saying the car you drive is not designed to skid and will pull itself apart when it does.

These coasters are designed to freewheel - if they roll through the track forwards, they roll through it backwards. Think about it.

Just a thought but are 13's wheels normal or are they specially made? as if there normal the smiler would have no problem with going backwards when valleying


the beauty of the wheel is that they roll which ever way gravity takes them. This not being able to roll backwards idea is ridiculous. Its a wheel, its round, it rolls. Couldn't be any more simple.

Realistically, either the bearings have failed, the urethane covering has disintegrated, or the wheel(s) have worked loose.
 
wburgess
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 10:51 am

...or the major incident is something purely fabricated out of speculation from the TT team...
 
richard.s
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 10:57 am

haha well yes there is that little chestnut to consider.
 
jrch123
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 11:00 am

richard.s wrote:
cookejj1 wrote:
richard.s wrote:
GoldWolf wrote:
Oblividoom wrote:
MatthewR1990 wrote:
Whats the difference between valleying & stalling? My common sense tells me a stall is when it gets stuck, valleying is when it doesn't make it and then rolls backwards through the track and then forwards again until it eventually rests at its lowest point. (Like a valley)


You've answered your own question.

Stalling is a complete stop, valleying is when the coaster train moves back and forth then rests. The physics of the two are very different, so this explains the delay if it did valley.

The coaster is not designed to go backwards on this track, so that may have caused major damage to the track and to the wheels as the weight distribution/resultant forces will have been ALL WRONG.


I think Oblividoom has got the cause of the problem spot on. I think they were testing the ride with the wheels that caused more friction and were slower, which meant that the train couldn't reach the next peak and it had to go backwards. This is what caused the damage to the track. Not because the track has been constructed incorrectly. Just look at the first testing videos that have been linked in this forum to see the believability of this.


You honestly think that an £18m coaster is not designed to handle a common problem experienced by many coasters, probably hundreds/thousands of times over the years?

That would be similar to saying the car you drive is not designed to skid and will pull itself apart when it does.

These coasters are designed to freewheel - if they roll through the track forwards, they roll through it backwards. Think about it.

Just a thought but are 13's wheels normal or are they specially made? as if there normal the smiler would have no problem with going backwards when valleying


the beauty of the wheel is that they roll which ever way gravity takes them. This not being able to roll backwards idea is ridiculous. Its a wheel, its round, it rolls. Couldn't be any more simple.

Realistically, either the bearings have failed, the urethane covering has disintegrated, or the wheel(s) have worked loose.


I swear the cars would always have to move backwards to the maintainence bay anyway, so it would be a bit of a problem if the wheels weren't designed to move backwards..
 
Benjsh

Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 11:02 am

Not sure which topic to post this in........

Anyway.......The Smiler FAQ's page says that any tickets that are not used because people are waiting for the Smiler to open can be used on another day. Do thse include the SUN FREE tickets offer as they are specifically designated for certain days? I'm thinking probably not. However they should be. It's not the general publics fault this ride has suffered setbacks.

I have two free tickets for the next three weeks.
 
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Barty
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 11:19 am

Very excited, I'm going tomorrow :) I'm going to try  to get pictures so are there any requests for photos of anything in particular? (Baring in mind that they will be taken from a galaxy s3 which has a very good camera but not huge zoom! )
 
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Oblividoom
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 11:20 am

richard.s wrote:

the beauty of the wheel is that they roll which ever way gravity takes them. This not being able to roll backwards idea is ridiculous. Its a wheel, its round, it rolls. Couldn't be any more simple.

Realistically, either the bearings have failed, the urethane covering has disintegrated, or the wheel(s) have worked loose.


Right. Physics lesson.

Yes wheels can roll either way - that is why they are called wheels (strictly speaking in mechanical terms this isn't entirely correct). This is nothing to do with the wheels[b]. It is [b]to do with the direction of forces

If you have a car that is designed to move forwards then the resultant force (momentum) is forwards (forward, downward and upward vectors resolving representing the car's weight, momentum etc).

If said car then moves backwards, then the forces on the track switch direction. This means if it went back into a roll, it may cause a friction force that is too great onto the track. In my opinion this explains the track markings. As every force has an equal and opposite, it means that there may be damage also to the wheels. Hence removal of train.

Hope that clarifies. Nothing to do with wheels.
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mynameismattm
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 11:47 am

I just feel AT are stuck between a rock and a hard place. You could place all the info out there and keep people informed but would heavily lose out on riders. Or they could follow the approach they are now and leave it out, get the forums annoyed and open up again. Unless this valleying gets into the papers, it is unlikely that the GP will learn about this and everything will carry on as normal. It is AT after all and delays were expected, but I think this is beyond their control, any new 'SW' or train will have said 'teething problems'. All I can say is I'm pleased the reverse free fall talks can be put to bed. Maybe even AT could manipulate it somehow for marketing? The swarm had dummy's arms falling off; clearly staged, but effective. Granted, this did actually happen, but maybe they could promote this as something to stir up interest. So many people are waiting for this that when it's sorted, this incident will be forgotten as long as the train makes it through that section with speed to spare.

Just my thoughts so I could be completely wrong but I feel bad for AT, they have given tickets, refunds and tried to cover themselves as best as they can in a situation that has just been handled so badley.

All I know is I'll be smiling the minute I see it open. *cue cheesy grin*
 
richard.s
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 11:48 am

Oblividoom wrote:
richard.s wrote:

the beauty of the wheel is that they roll which ever way gravity takes them. This not being able to roll backwards idea is ridiculous. Its a wheel, its round, it rolls. Couldn't be any more simple.

Realistically, either the bearings have failed, the urethane covering has disintegrated, or the wheel(s) have worked loose.


Right. Physics lesson.

Yes wheels can roll either way - that is why they are called wheels (strictly speaking in mechanical terms this isn't entirely correct). This is nothing to do with the wheels[b]. It is [b]to do with the direction of forces

If you have a car that is designed to move forwards then the resultant force (momentum) is forwards (forward, downward and upward vectors resolving representing the car's weight, momentum etc).

If said car then moves backwards, then the forces on the track switch direction. This means if it went back into a roll, it may cause a friction force that is too great onto the track. In my opinion this explains the track markings. As every force has an equal and opposite, it means that there may be damage also to the wheels. Hence removal of train.

Hope that clarifies. Nothing to do with wheels.


That clarifies nothing, nor is it a physics lesson. It has everything to do with the wheels considering they are the only part in contact with the track - the rolling resistance between a (working, good condition) hard urethane covered wheel and steel track is very low.

Without wanting to sound patronising using bold text, italics or underscore - The trains and track will be designed to handle a roll back considering it is a common occurrence with all coasters - it happens to most in their lifetime.

The major force on the track is downward (relatively speaking in relation to the car and track). This is called 'gravity' and centripetal force. The Cars are rolling, not sliding -  so the resultant directional force to the cars and track is minimal regardless of whether the car is sat on it's main wheels, or hanging from its guide wheels in the case of an inverted stall.

The arguement that the track cannot handle a car in reverse is complete tosh too. The track is in a much better position to hold a car hanging from the apex of a loop, than one pushing its way through for example. look into the physics of an arched bridge for reference if you don't believe me.

I'm quite confident that if there was a stall and damage to the track/major incident, it would have been caused by a damaged wheel(s), not because the cars 'aren't designed to go backwards'.
Last edited by richard.s on Mon May 27, 2013 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jordanc14
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 11:53 am

jordanc14 wrote:
Woo, I won the pen!! Haha ;) but, in all seriousness, looking forward on a slightly pessimistic note, if SAW is anything to go by, should we expect some bad teething troubles?


I quote from my post in 14th May, oh how right I was! Well, if it is even "teething troubles", I visited on Saturday, and apart from putting a train on track, and queue line work, there really was no life at all. I'm visiting on Friday, and hope that it will be open, but not holding my breath. I got a few pictures on Saturday, and thought I would post them  :)

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And a quick panorama:

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Sorry for the picture heavy post, but just got a few extra shots  :D
Last edited by jordanc14 on Mon May 27, 2013 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
rosco1982uk
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Mon May 27, 2013 12:12 pm

Having caught up on about 20 pages today, I genuinely have to laugh at the arrogance of some posters who are demanding to be told what is wrong with the ride.

Alton Towers is a company. They don't have to tell people on an internet forum anything. Full stop. It's their ride, their investment, their problem, their issue.

Let's say your Sky signal fails. Would you phone customer services and ask for it to be fixed? Absolutely.

Would you phone customer services and demand to know which satellite is out of line, which network is down etc? No. You'd be told to go away.


Alton Towers don't have to share any information whatsoever. Say they come out and say (totally made up) that the wheels have melted on the way round and that's causing the delay. The ride / wheel manufacturer then ends up looking bad - when it may have been their fault - or it may not be as the ride designer / architect may have put the wrong wheels on the train in the first place.

The simple fact is - no one on here has a "right" to know. You are a paying customer. You are not a shareholder in the company nor are you an ops manager in the park. If you don't like the silence, you don't have to go to the park, that's your choice as a consumer, but you certainly don't have the right to demand confidential information.

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