UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
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George B
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:46 pm

Ok, now this has been debated over we should stop talking about it and I will change the matter with this question. When can we expect to see the track at x sector? (I'm going on Tuesday and I will get pics)
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Nightfall
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:02 pm

Chris-TT wrote:
At the moment we don't have any adverts as Alton Towers refused to pay us through the advertising company they were using because of our close affiliation to the business.

However other themeparks are often eagar to advertise with us because of our high google rankings with Alton Towers and related keyword searches.


I know it's off topic but I have to say that's a silly decision by Towers. Surely a site which people visit to find out about their park is a good place to advertise, especially if it involves cheaper tickets? What are they playing at?
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Oblivesis
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:08 pm

Bunster wrote:
Ok, now this has been debated over we should stop talking about it and I will change the matter with this question. When can we expect to see the track at x sector? (I'm going on Tuesday and I will get pics)


Not sure when track will be seen in the X sector, but I do remember seeing some new pieces of track yesterday just as you enter the car park ((Where area C is)). Don't know wether they are SW7's or not though, they were brand new looking, black, and triangular shaped.  :? Im not good at recognising tracks...
 
PeteB
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:12 pm

Nightfall wrote:
Chris-TT wrote:
At the moment we don't have any adverts as Alton Towers refused to pay us through the advertising company they were using because of our close affiliation to the business.

However other themeparks are often eagar to advertise with us because of our high google rankings with Alton Towers and related keyword searches.


I know it's off topic but I have to say that's a silly decision by Towers. Surely a site which people visit to find out about their park is a good place to advertise, especially if it involves cheaper tickets? What are they playing at?


Yep, that's exactly how petty they are.  Merlin/Alton have absolutely no respect for their own customers let alone loyal fans. Other theme parks worship the fans and their sites.

There are other parks literally fighting to get ads on TowersTimes but out of respect for Alton, even though we're not an official site, we choose not to go down that route.  I think that says a lot about Merlin, and a lot about TowersTimes.  :roll:


Anyway, we'd really like to get back on topic here so if anyone has further concerns about either TowersTimes or Alton Towers, feel free to start another topic elsewhere. Now, back to SW7...
 
scw55
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:05 pm

Watching TV clips for Nemesis and it's described as a "10 million pound investment".

That's half of Sw7's 20-18 million pound.

I know Nemesis didn't have half the finance as SW7 because of a thing called inflation.
It's quite interesting never-the-less.
 
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MatthewR1990
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:23 pm

scw55 wrote:
Watching TV clips for Nemesis and it's described as a "10 million pound investment".

That's half of Sw7's 20-18 million pound.

I know Nemesis didn't have half the finance as SW7 because of a thing called inflation.
It's quite interesting never-the-less.


A very, very rough estimate would say that Nemesis would cost around £16,000,000 in today's money. So that extra couple of millions worth of ride better be good.

Just out of curiosity how in gods name do roller coasters cost that much money? Can any of you brilliant rollernerds (no offence obviously) break down these costs?
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Jammydodger
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:39 pm

Digging down costs money. A LOT of money.
Hence why Oblivion cost around £14-15m in todays money, despite its small amount of track.

And in Thorpe's case, its not digging, but infilling land which inflates their coaster budgets.

Then factor in Research and development for new elements (See: TH13TEEN), and massive theming elements (See: THE SWARM).
 
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scott.smith
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:40 pm

Matthewr1990 wrote:
scw55 wrote:
Watching TV clips for Nemesis and it's described as a "10 million pound investment".

That's half of Sw7's 20-18 million pound.

I know Nemesis didn't have half the finance as SW7 because of a thing called inflation.
It's quite interesting never-the-less.


A very, very rough estimate would say that Nemesis would cost around £16,000,000 in today's money. So that extra couple of millions worth of ride better be good.

Just out of curiosity how in gods name do roller coasters cost that much money? Can any of you brilliant rollernerds (no offence obviously) break down these costs?


It often depends on the size or the manufactuer,but most of the costs are broken up by marketing, construction and the materials used, i mean landscaping would have took a big percentage of the total due to the hiring of workers and diggers. And because it is not a standard model that would have made it have a higher price tag.

It is a small amount compared to the rest of the world however

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Steel Dragon cost $52,000,000 US Dollars.

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Millenium Force $25,000,000 US Dollars.

I don't know much so what i have said may be complete rubbish.
 
scw55
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:29 am

It is a lot of steel.
It is frightful how much metal is used if you think about it.
 
PeteB
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:15 am

Matthewr1990 wrote:
scw55 wrote:
Watching TV clips for Nemesis and it's described as a "10 million pound investment".

That's half of Sw7's 20-18 million pound.

I know Nemesis didn't have half the finance as SW7 because of a thing called inflation.
It's quite interesting never-the-less.


A very, very rough estimate would say that Nemesis would cost around £16,000,000 in today's money. So that extra couple of millions worth of ride better be good.

Just out of curiosity how in gods name do roller coasters cost that much money? Can any of you brilliant rollernerds (no offence obviously) break down these costs?


Lets not forget that B&M's are bloody expensive too, so with Gerst I think they'll be getting more bang for their buck and also I think the Nemesis budget included the FV area theme.

But yeah, the many millions you mention go on the ground work and steel which are the two most expensive parts I guess. I suppose that because every single piece of track is custom fabricated it costs a hell of a lot more to put together than just chucking a load of I-Beams together to make a building.

Also I think the marketing and advertising budgets are included in the rides now. I know back in 1994 they had a budget of £4m to advertise Nemesis but whether or not that was included with the £10m spent on the ride is unknown. TV advertising costs a lot.

When they built Th13teen I was talking to somebody from Merlin Studios and I mentioned the £15m it cost to build the ride. They "lolled" and said it was actually closer to £8m but because all the other costs like advertising and area retheme go alongside the coaster they can kind of get away with marketing it as £15m development.
Last edited by PeteB on Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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MatthewR1990
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:42 am

I actually work in the steel industry. A completely different type of steel to what is used here though, I work with tool steel. Specifically high density stuff primarily used to make tools, moulds and presses. (E.G the end of a pneumatic drill or the two halves of a mould that makes plastic car bumpers etc.) and this is the most expensive steel you can get as its so precise and high grade. anyway what I'm getting at is I've seen the price of steel. We dispatch roughly 80 tonnes of steel that is all cut and trimmed to size in variations of a few millimetres to many metres long, wide and thick every month. And I know the price of this stuff and although expensive is no where near any sort of figures these coasters are. And as I said our stuff is the most expensive steel you can get. And land works? Again i just don't see the money in it. Couple of hundred grand maybe. Basically it is definitely boggling me how this much money gets spent even with all the things you guys said included.
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Chris-TT

Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:06 am

In my opinion prices are vastly inflated and include pretty much anything the park can get away with. However you do have to take into consideration the bespoke design. For example SixFlags can pick up a Batman clone for a lot less than something customs made to a parks specification.

It always does surprise me the substantual difference in cost between steel and wooden, as both are custom made, and a lot more material goes into a wooden coaster than a steel one.
I really would love to one day see a full breakdown of the costs.
 
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:32 am

Yeah I know what you're getting at Matthew, and I agree it's mind boggling to think "how did that cost so many millions?"when you look at the end result but I guess the money goes somewhere, and everybody involved has to make a profit.

Would definitely be interesting to see a cost breakdown.
 
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danwhit709
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:53 am

Just thought, has there been a time lapse camera set up for SW7?
 
Adam
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:56 am

danwhit709 wrote:
Just thought, has there been a time lapse camera set up for SW7?


Yes I believe there is one set up.
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Benji
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:43 am

so the estimate of 18-20million could also include the price of a spruce up of x-sector?
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Sam198
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:51 am

ben.at08 wrote:
so the estimate of 18-20million could also include the price of a spruce up of x-sector?


Hopefully, Alton did the same thing with th13teen and the dark forest... i just hope we don't see a similar kind of total retheme
 
CoasterCrazyChris
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:04 pm

PeteB wrote:
When they built Th13teen I was talking to somebody from Merlin Studios and I mentioned the £15m it cost to build the ride. They "lolled" and said it was actually closer to £8m but because all the other costs like advertising and area retheme go alongside the coaster they can kind of get away with marketing it as £15m development.


So let me get this straight...asides from advertising, the other half of the budget went on pots of grey paint and plastic vines? :/
 
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:08 pm

I don't know Matthew, there is a lot to pay for seen and unseen:
Landscaping (including clearing) and designing, foundations/anchors/stuff to stop the ground collapsing nearby, surveys, re routing ground works such as pipes & cables, general drainage, lawyer fees for such as planning process with the council. The whole coaster has to be safe and pass regulation standards. The concept and themeing. If you have a shop that's got to have the whole 9 yards to be passable as a public building including electricity, if you've got a toilet aswell that has water and drainage. And I don't think that's even all of it.

Also, almost every rollercoaster or the area in which its built has some original/unsuspected aspect to it big or small, and its these areas which in the past brought up unforeseen problems. Prototype problems and I guess sometimes you have to dismantel things or dig them up and that cost man hours and sometimes resources.
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Re: The Smiler - Construction Discussion

Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:07 pm

Just to point out, steel dragon cost $52,000,000 because they had to make it earthquake proof due to the park being near a major fault...we'll probably never see that record being broken..so much steel an foundation work had to be done which sent the costs up dramatically, that and the exchange rate at the time was awful!
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