UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
CharlesParry
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:32 pm

I would point out that some of the scribblings and drawings were probably made for the promo shots, and so might not bare much resemblance to the ride. The carriage one for example is a different one to one used for the ride, the drawing one being to a European design.
 
Aidan Lowe
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:11 pm

New video talking to Derren Brown here.

This video gives a nice visual of how Lighthouse scans the surrounding area for the location of the receptors on the HTC Vive headsets.

Vision Summit 2016 VR/AR is coming in Feb if there is anyone who wants to see/hear what the tech may be able to do prior to Galactica & DBGT opening.

Here is an interesting article on how wearing the Vive you can be immersed in a movie environment.

The movie places viewers (wearing an HTC Vive VR headset) in a dystopian desert. Because the Vive’s Lighthouse system tracks your movement, you can walk around the desert.

8i’s technology, however, lets filmmakers capture entire performances with off-the-shelf cameras and then place them in pre-existing environments, creating a fully navigable 3-D VR movie that’s far more immersive than the 360-degree videos most have seen.

“It allows storytellers to be able to finally for the first time be able to put realistic humans into a story for virtual reality.”


8i.com 8i Video
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Aidan Lowe
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:33 am

Something that did slip me by however now I'm talking about explosions & smoke inhalation is Clue #5 clearly shows two train passengers unmistakably wearing gas masks. Also one of the articles refers to the headset being worn as a "mask" during the experience.

And in the first DBGT reveal if you run your eyes along the bottom for the first few seconds that looks like gas/smoke. Sure you could say its dirt from the ground just being thrown into the air through the wind etc.

This highlighted in the image below looks like the base/exhalation part of a gas mask also:

Image

The artwork itself gives the biggest hint something happens to the carriage, looking closely into the image even further the cracks in the wall & discoloration could be because the result of a fire. Particularly look around near Derren Brown's head.

Seeing as this is a reinvention of the Ghost Train for the 21st century then I believe we will see an event through the eyes of someone who was on that train through clairvoyance and with VR I think this is highly likely to be the basis of the experience.

Whether your sceptic or not they believe they can see what happened through through an object, person, location or pick up on a psychical event that took place, that's where I think this experience is going myself. Its a Victorian carriage to give it a chilling beauty and when we board we relive it.

Clairvoyance basically means "clear vision" and the thing being brought up a lot is we guests will be left wondering where perception ends & reality begins. Someone also touched on the 5 figures representing the train tracks perhaps being the five senses. Well extrasensory perception "psychic" is said to be a "sixth sense" and we all remember the Sixth Sense movie. He saw people that were deceased in our reality / physical plane or whatever.
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simononestop
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:52 am

in that new video he says "you experience it on your own".
So I am betting you all sit on the carriage put the vr head set on then all the people sitting around you change to the ones in the movie. (in the movie).
you don't see the real people sitting around you.
this would explain the green screen and filming people sitting on a carriage.

would take some work to process 60 different seat views of the same film, let alone 12 different films?

but it possible I guess
 
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:53 am

Below image taken from the user manual of the HTC Vive, lots of cabling.

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Sitting down to experience something amazing and ...wait for it...

Image

So what does this means for the experience? No doubt somewhere on that carriage will be a compartment concealed which houses some form of super computer. It needs to feed visual data at 2160x1200 (1080x1200 per eye) at 90 Hz with a possible 90 frames per second to each HTC Vive headset. That is going to need some serious hardware which could be why the new estimated price tag on this attraction is around £40 million.

With all that in mind I believe personally there won't be any movement involved whilst wearing the headset as some people suggested maybe the carriage could drop with a Th13teen / Verbolten element. I think we can rest assured if there was hardware on board the carriage it won't be dropped although the below image with circle highlights could possible indicate some lowering or just a representation of being off the ground hanging by iron chains.

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Considering construction isn't complete I'm betting for a May opening hopefully in time for the southern meet.

Also has the T&C of the competition changed? "The chance to meet the maker of the new attraction to be confirmed on the day of the launch night". Something tells me what people are most excited about regarding the prizes probably won't happen after all.
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abigsmurf
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:12 pm

They'll almost certainly use a custom unified cable to connect the headsets (probably just the cables all bundled together).

Looking at how the VR Coaster at universal works, it seems they use a Samsung Gear VR which is basically a galaxy phone. All the processing is done in the headset with no Computers on board the vehicles, just a wireless box.

If I had to guess how that solution works, it uses the 360 video tech like you see on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFRPXRhBYOI

The videos are probably pre-downloaded and the wireless box just keeps the video in sync with the ride.

Not convinced they could get away with this on Ghost Train. The VR coaster takes a dumb terminal approach with minimal processing being done by the headset. You can't do interesting Augmented Reality effects and the VR would show everyone sitting in the same seats.

It's likely how it's being done for Air though.

An onboard computer to handle the number crunching? Being generous they could maybe do 5 headsets per server, that's a lot of rackspace. These servers will be really sensitive to vibrations and forces, any sort of drop would do major damage over a period of months-years. Even if the servers were kept static and the cars/seats moved independently, there will be significant vibrations that will be hard to dampen.

A bespoke wireless system that sends a compressed signal to the cars (with a smaller, more hardy piece of hardware to decompress and send to the appropriate headset on the train)?

Sending the data over powerlines on the track? You could run multiple lines with independent data streams, if the cars only ever travel at a low speed keeping contact for an unbroken stream should be simple enough. My home powerline network can do about 10megs a second which is comfortably enough for 10 high bandwidth video streams.
 
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:45 pm

Continuing from my double outcome theory, with two trains and the explosion etc. Maybe the different outcomes are due to what carriage you sit in. Let's say you're in the carriage the blows up, you in the VR world die, and enter the immersive tunnel through the left somehow or another, but being separated from the people that survive in the VR world. Then you would visualize fears of being dead etc. and the experience goes from there. If you survive in the VR world however, you may experience the fears of real life, or of the dead, but not being dead. This could explain how so many are supposedly implicated into this experience. The two outcomes would be decided upon which carriage you experience?

I know this is a very elaborate theory, but I don't think it's unlikely. I think that the suspended train won't lower any more, but be like a simulator. Also by the layout of the building released, and outcome 1 and 2 seemingly being beside each other, entering the immersive tunnel side by side one way or another would make sense, also would increase capacity.
Image
 
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:07 pm

Also I work in IT and computers go wrong all the time crash ect.
wouldn't be great if you queued up got on the ride and yours didn't work properly.
could be a pain in the ass if the need like 5 servers running.
also if it gets run down over the years will it all work properly after a few years use?
 
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:42 pm

They'll need a full time systems admin on the ride for sure.

Assuming they go the mainframe/server farm route it can actually be decently reliable. Virtualisation tech is pretty solid nowadays, they could simply have it so that every headset uses its own isolated instance. If one headset's instance crashes, the others continue fine, if there's hardware failure, the other servers pick up the slack.

It'll be expensive to run no doubt needs a big number of high powered servers but it'll get cheaper over time and, if the ride's getting stale, they can replace the theming, write a new program and come up with a brand new ride on the same tech.
 
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:48 pm

First time poster! :D

I've been reading this forum up until the official announcement of it being a ghost train and decided to make an account :)

Am I the only one who thinks that the homeless man in the first announcement trailer looks like he's ducking out of the way of an oncoming train when he crouches and coughs? This is just a theory but it looks like a large light is shining on him (presumably the train's headlight) and he's coughing because of the steam from the oncoming train. This could also be what causes the train to derail/crash as he can't get out of the way fast enough so the train has to emergency stop and derails in the process. This could possibly be the "bad" outcome of the ride/scenario in the VR.

Just a few thoughts I had :)
 
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:48 am

If it is full VR (no real world view for the rider) there would be little point having an elaborate ride mechanism, instead a bank of simulator bases would be sufficient, Star Tours style.

Visual effects, sets, smoke, lighting and projection would not be needed for the ride portion of the attraction.

-------

I doubt riders will board the suspended train as this would have accessibility issues. The visual impact of the access stairs would remove the impact of the train.

Not having people in the train would also allow it to be made from lighter materials.
 
Aidan Lowe
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:30 am

mark_h wrote:
If it is full VR there would be little point having an elaborate ride mechanism, instead a bank of simulator bases would be sufficient.

Visual effects, sets, smoke, lighting and projection would not be needed for the ride portion of the attraction.

I doubt riders will board the suspended train as this would have accessibility issues.


They've stated that VR will only be a portion of the experience.

Image

Thorpe Park have confirmed its wheelchair accessible & I'm guessing those boxes highlighted above are the wheelchair lifts.

The story aspect of the experience is we enter a Victorian carriage suspended with iron chains. The ride vehicle could be secured to the a platform underneath and moved in a way the terminal operating systems move containers at shipping yards while the VR segment is going on.

Then the VR portion ends and another part of the experience begins.
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Horras64
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:56 am

Have they confirmed that VR will be used in the suspended train?
Image
 
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:31 am

Horras64 wrote:
Have they confirmed that VR will be used in the suspended train?


Nope it hasn't been confirmed where the VR will take place at least to my knowledge. However that said these headsets are not the type that can be handed out freely as they require connections for power, hdmi & whatever else so naturally one would think the VR part needs to be on a bit of the experience where your sat.

Image

Firstly if you look at the construction picture taken from Movie Park's The Lost Temple I think you'll agree it looks the same as their Immersive Tunnel.

The pit they dug as seen below the carriage in the above pic is probably around the 3M they said its suspended from. So while plans show you going up steps & across a metal bridge I genuinely don't believe it'll be that far off ground level.

So with that said I do believe it'll be on a transfer track and it'll go horizontally across before connecting up with track which takes it into the ride building. I don't think the budget would allow for an AGV system on top of everything else.

Another few pics which show similarities between the two projects. Gate one and two from Movie Park both hold 30 individuals. This is said to accommodate 60 guests per train.

Image Image

And even the queue lines / interior experience are slightly similar.

Image
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Aidan Lowe
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:54 pm

Another interview with Derren Brown, brief part starting at 02:27: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMlQFaBUha4

Doesn't state anything different although he did mention he was "working with the technology side of it to make sure that's up to scratch". So hopefully being the kind of guy he is he won't be satisfied if the technology doesn't have the desired effect which is a good thing. I'd hope he wouldn't want it to be opened if it was naff in its current ride able form when it is ride able.

Derren Brown wrote:
There is no safety, only fear.. and excitement.
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Horras64
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:11 pm

Andy Mc wrote:
Another interview with Derren Brown, brief part starting at 02:27: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMlQFaBUha4

Doesn't state anything different although he did mention he was "working with the technology side of it to make sure that's up to scratch". So hopefully being the kind of guy he is he won't be satisfied if the technology doesn't have the desired effect which is a good thing. I'd hope he wouldn't want it to be opened if it was naff in its current ride able form when it is ride able.

Derren Brown wrote:
There is no safety, only fear.. and excitement.


Derren's the kind of guy who doesn't want anything to be wrong, he perfects everything. I have watched almost every single TV program of his and live show. (Though I haven't watched them live) However I'm going to see Miracle in February. Very rarely do his things go wrong, and I'm the person who doesn't think their staged. Therefore if I won the first prize of DBGT, I would get a chance to meet him, and that would be a dream come true. But I'm sooooo excited for this.
Image
 
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:30 pm

Just to point out there is limited WiFi/wireless channels available and there would be all sorts of conflicts. The VR will have to use a wired system especially if there are 60 headsets. There is no way the server racks could move so I find it unlikely you will wear the headsets while under "violent" movement.
 
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:37 am

sw7nutter wrote:
I find it unlikely you will wear the headsets while under "violent" movement.


I am leaning more towards this not being a heavy movement involved attraction at all, marketing is focusing on the mind aspect rather than a psychical journey anyway and if I'm right in thinking it is a tunnel experience I don't think it'll be on a 3DoF motion system either.

I've thrown this together quickly (its by no means to scale, the carriage is quite long).

Image

While the wall partitions are not visible from construction photographs there seems to be a partitioning when entering the ride building. My guess is that when one ride vehicle is finished it'll exit when the other one is set to go in. Based on this idea of how it'll function I'd imagine there only being a possible of two ride vehicles.

Image

Going back to the CCTV clip I feel I've found at what part of the interior it was filmed from, what happens on the higher level we've no idea (if anything):

Image
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Horras64
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:28 am

Andy Mc wrote:
sw7nutter wrote:
I find it unlikely you will wear the headsets while under "violent" movement.


I am leaning more towards this not being a heavy movement involved attraction at all, marketing is focusing on the mind aspect rather than a psychical journey anyway and if I'm right in thinking it is a tunnel experience I don't think it'll be on a 3DoF motion system either.

I've thrown this together quickly (its by no means to scale, the carriage is quite long).

Image

While the wall partitions are not visible from construction photographs there seems to be a partitioning when entering the ride building. My guess is that when one ride vehicle is finished it'll exit when the other one is set to go in. Based on this idea of how it'll function I'd imagine there only being a possible of two ride vehicles.

Image

Going back to the CCTV clip I feel I've found at what part of the interior it was filmed from, what happens on the higher level we've no idea (if anything):

Image


The plans you show are similar to what I said, as the two outcomes lead into the immersive tunnel, however the two carriages idea seems to be more unlikely now that you've got a layout which makes it clearer to me. (That might of sounded a bit confusing, but I'm not saying the plans you have are official IMOP, but rather clearer and makes sense more)
Image
 
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Re: Derren Brown's Ghost Train - New for 2016

Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:25 am

Horras64 wrote:
The plans you show are similar to what I said, as the two outcomes lead into the immersive tunnel.


Indeed.

From earlier construction in September there was a railing system as seen highlighted. If this is permanent railing then it'd make the transfer track theory irrelevant but I'm guessing its just for H&S during construction. There is no supports in the way so it'd easily transfer the ride vehicle.

Image
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