UK theme parks from another point of view!
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Vladimir Bobinski
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Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
It is worth noting they have had conditional approval on their medium term development plan since 2010, which stated the installation of two roller coasters "one not to exceed a maximum height of 40m and one not to exceed a maximum height of 50m"
The swarm is 38.6M#
Although this is unlikely to do with 2013.
The swarm is 38.6M#
Although this is unlikely to do with 2013.
Last edited by Vladimir Bobinski on Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vladimir Bobinski
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Re: thorpe park 2013 possible ride discussion
JoshC. wrote:The fence was apparently put up on opening day, though, so it was something done quite quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if we do end up seeing a new ride there in 2013, as the space is crying out to be used. Personally, I'd love to see a dark ride come to Thorpe soon, but I can't see one squeezing in that space if I'm honest.
As for Asylum, with it being Thorpe's most known FN maze, I can't see that going just yet. Thorpe can easily set up a temporary fence in front of this one if needs be; no big issue. I'd be more interested to see what happens if a ride gets built there, as it's gotta have some sort of way of letting Asylum work with it during FN.
Whatever this mysterious fence means, at least that spot has been made more presentable in a non-intrusive manner!
Indeed it was, some very casual labour was going on that day. It really is as simple of a bit of visual tidying up or a new flat ride, but I don't see anything on the planning site for Runnymede.
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Coolbeans14
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Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
Dingerbell wrote:This map suggests the same thing
A coaster near the entrance or next to Swarm.
Also many, many flat ride locations
I hope I'm not being stupid, but what does "experience" mean in the top corner?
Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
Coolbeans14 wrote:Dingerbell wrote:This map suggests the same thing
A coaster near the entrance or next to Swarm.
Also many, many flat ride locations
I hope I'm not being stupid, but what does "experience" mean in the top corner?
could that be a rock climbing 'experience' or something similar?
Enjoying Rollercoasters as part of a healthy balanced diet since 1983
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Coasteraddict
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Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
CoasterCrazyChris wrote:This was from another topic but I feel it is more relevant here.
I've always believed that the "THORPE PARK" approach was doomed from the start.
Creating a theme park solely aimed at teenagers and young people is a risky move as trends can change as quickly as they arrive and a single miscalculation could lead to the loss of half your customer base.
Building £10-20 million rollercoasters every three years is NOT a sustainable business model. You will not get a significant enough return on investment when your target market is narrow and your attendance levels peaked several years ago.
But without a doubt, Thorpe Park has the potential to be the next Alton Towers.
The relaxed planning restrictions, location next to the UK's largest city, fantastic transport links and HUGE areas of undeveloped land could easily ensure this.
The left of the car parks could become a waterside entertainments complex with boardwalk area hosting evening lake shows. The right side could be developed with multiple hotels and a waterpark larger than any in Europe. The farm could be reopened and improved with a range of children's attractions and a Sealife centre. This just scratches the surface with what could be done.
Will it happen? No. Why? No vision and huge constraints. Much in the same way as Alton Towers.
THIS! Thorpe has to be one of if not the most poorly handled parks in history. Going from a park with unbelievable potential, to little more than a glorified amusement Sh*t hole. IMO They should have stopped with the onslaught of flats and coasters for a good 5/6 years after inferno, as it was plain as day even back then that the infrastructure of the park was struggling, and now it's even worse.
Why they went for stealth when they new that they wouldn't be able to go to 200+ ft again, had few (2) rides with good throughput for the volume of visitors they were receiving and the maintenance problems they had already experienced baffles me, Stealth should have been a hyper built so they get a ride with a minimum of 1500 PPH, that is reliable and take up (relatively) no space (if they had built it from the loggers leap/Fungle safari area and have it out and back round the back of the park, oh and they should have built it in 2008 to make sure they could cope, then Merlin should have started a 4 year cycle as 3 years simply isn't enough time to re-coup losses and be sustainable.
Really do hate Thorpe.
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- Dormiens-Dave
Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
CoasterCrazyChris wrote:HUGE areas of undeveloped land could easily ensure this.
Actually the lack of land is Thorpe's problem, they are literally having to spend millions of pounds just reclaiming land to build on and for every square foot of land they reclaim they have to sink another square foot of land elsewhere.
Thorpe's downfall if any (other than being too narrow minded in their scope) is that they have no land.
Oddly enough considering its age Towers has quite a bit
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CoasterCrazyChris
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Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
Dormiens-Dave wrote:CoasterCrazyChris wrote:HUGE areas of undeveloped land could easily ensure this.
Actually the lack of land is Thorpe's problem, they are literally having to spend millions of pounds just reclaiming land to build on and for every square foot of land they reclaim they have to sink another square foot of land elsewhere.
Thorpe's downfall if any (other than being too narrow minded in their scope) is that they have no land.
Oddly enough considering its age Towers has quite a bit
But they own a huge area of land behind where the new hotel is being built and also a large field on the other side of the road leaing to the car parks. There is also a large site to the left of the existing car parks (for a planned entertainments complex).
Even though some is flooded, they still have the farm area as well, not that they could build much there though.
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- Dormiens-Dave
Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
They could develop the resort side easy enough which i think they plan to do (the club nights in the Dome potentially being a tester for this). But they have made it clear that they dont want the park to extend into the farm area hence flooding parts of it.
They will keep flooding the farm and adding more land for a while but by 2020 that might not be a viable option.
They will keep flooding the farm and adding more land for a while but by 2020 that might not be a viable option.
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CoasterCrazyChris
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Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
Dormiens-Dave wrote:They could develop the resort side easy enough which i think they plan to do (the club nights in the Dome potentially being a tester for this). But they have made it clear that they dont want the park to extend into the farm area hence flooding parts of it.
They will keep flooding the farm and adding more land for a while but by 2020 that might not be a viable option.
They will never be able to flood the farm itself, only the grazing fields on the edge of the lake because the actual farm and buildings are located right next to a road with residential properties.
There is a reason few theme parks restrict themselves to being thrill only: in the long term they don't make money and are unsustainable. The sooner they realise this the better.
Not only is your market restricted but they are constantly demanding bigger and subsequently more expensive attractions. So eventually you get to the point where you're investing £20 million+ every three years just to maintain your visitor numbers.
The profit margins must be pretty poor.
Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
The political situation could possibly have changed by 2020, and they might have renegotiated that deal, allowing them simply to fill in the whole lake.
Or you never know, in 2020 it might be time to wave goodbye to Colossus and Saw: The Ride for something new.
Or you never know, in 2020 it might be time to wave goodbye to Colossus and Saw: The Ride for something new.
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CoasterCrazyChris
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Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
The long-term strategy must be to make Thorpe Park the next Alton Towers.
It makes total sense.
Alton Towers is in the middle of nowhere. Thorpe Park is on the edge of a capital city.
Alton Towers has huge planning constraints. Thorpe Park does not.
Alton Towers has little land left it can develop. Thorpe Park has potentially a lot.
It makes total sense.
Alton Towers is in the middle of nowhere. Thorpe Park is on the edge of a capital city.
Alton Towers has huge planning constraints. Thorpe Park does not.
Alton Towers has little land left it can develop. Thorpe Park has potentially a lot.
Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
CoasterCrazyChris wrote:Alton Towers has little land left it can develop. Thorpe Park has potentially a lot.
As has already been discussed above (Langler 2012), the exact opposite is true.
Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
I think people view Thorpe with the wrong attitude tbh. Thorpe is an evolving place, still growing and developing by the year. Its incredibly dynamic. Certainly the infrastructure is poor but there is no doubt that the place is maturing and there is only small cosmetic changes that could vastly improve the whole look and feel of the place (like grassing over neptunes beach or turning x:/wtf into a small park area.
Yes the kids rides have all but dissapeared but they could add back in an entire family zone in one season when they are ready to. If you look at the outer edge of the park; The Swarm, Nemesis, Canada Creek and Collossus, there is little to improve here. Its only the centre that needs reformatting and im sure thats why the water slide was dropped into it last season. There is no point in making good the area until the park is big enough to support opening up the centre.
Yes the kids rides have all but dissapeared but they could add back in an entire family zone in one season when they are ready to. If you look at the outer edge of the park; The Swarm, Nemesis, Canada Creek and Collossus, there is little to improve here. Its only the centre that needs reformatting and im sure thats why the water slide was dropped into it last season. There is no point in making good the area until the park is big enough to support opening up the centre.
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Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
I would argue that Canada Creek, and most certainly Colossus, are tired, run down, and in desperate need of a spruce-up.
Problem is, by that point Thorpe will well and truly have the reputation of being unsuitable for families with kids, and so it'd be a risky strategy to invest in a new family zone, as chances are it'd take a few years to be 'discovered'.
Wildboy wrote:Yes the kids rides have all but dissapeared but they could add back in an entire family zone in one season when they are ready to.
Problem is, by that point Thorpe will well and truly have the reputation of being unsuitable for families with kids, and so it'd be a risky strategy to invest in a new family zone, as chances are it'd take a few years to be 'discovered'.
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- Dormiens-Dave
Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
CoasterCrazyChris wrote:
Alton Towers is in the middle of nowhere. Thorpe Park is on the edge of a capital city.
Alton Towers has huge planning constraints. Thorpe Park does not.
Alton Towers has little land left it can develop. Thorpe Park has potentially a lot.
In response
Alton Towers has a wider catchment area as its in the midlands, few in Yorkshire (UK's largest county) are going to bother with Thorpe Park and Thousands of people from Scotland go to Towers (Small chance they will go to Thorpe)
Alton Towers has planning constraints but other parks have worse ones (Chessie for example)
Alton Towers has tons of land left, (Air car park and Coaster Corner are tipped for theme-park expansion.
Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
Islander wrote:I would argue that Canada Creek, and most certainly Colossus, are tired, run down, and in desperate need of a spruce-up.Wildboy wrote:Yes the kids rides have all but dissapeared but they could add back in an entire family zone in one season when they are ready to.
Problem is, by that point Thorpe will well and truly have the reputation of being unsuitable for families with kids, and so it'd be a risky strategy to invest in a new family zone, as chances are it'd take a few years to be 'discovered'.
I think most families only go by what's advertised on TV, so if Thorpe were to open up a family friendly section with a bit marketing push, the families would come.
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Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
I do love how people are claiming Thorpe Park has/will be making a huge mistake.
Merlins financial reports say something completely different.
I'm sorry to break this to you, but Thorpe Park is hugely successful with what it is doing. I'm not sure how people can claim otherwise. Merlin for all its faults knows how to run a theme park profitably. It wouldn't continue down the 'thrill' route unless it knew it was working.
It'll be interesting to see in 5 or so years time if a poster on a forum is correct or the one of the worlds biggest and most successful theme park operators. I know who I have my money on.
Merlins financial reports say something completely different.
I'm sorry to break this to you, but Thorpe Park is hugely successful with what it is doing. I'm not sure how people can claim otherwise. Merlin for all its faults knows how to run a theme park profitably. It wouldn't continue down the 'thrill' route unless it knew it was working.
It'll be interesting to see in 5 or so years time if a poster on a forum is correct or the one of the worlds biggest and most successful theme park operators. I know who I have my money on.
Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
Indeed. I think some people's judgements on thrill parks being unsustainable come from the financial trouble Six Flags got themselves in to, but the key difference is that Six Flags operate what, 7, 8 parks? All run in a similar manner with an almost exclusive thrill focus.
Thorpe Park is one thrill park, located geographically in an area where there are already 2 established family-aimed parks, which just so happen to be owned by the same holding company. As such, it would make no sense for Thorpe to compete with Chessie and Legoland, as it would only serve to dilute Merlin's customer base. In this instance, operating 1 of the 3 as a thrill park makes perfect sense, and as Adz mentioned above, is clearly working for Merlin.
There will always be a target audience for Thorpe, because there will always be a huge number of thrillseekers within their target age bracket. Theme parks are something which seem to be almost recession proof. If a park like Thorpe can continue to prosper in such a difficult economic climate, then it'll thrive when the country is in a more financial stable position.
Thorpe Park is one thrill park, located geographically in an area where there are already 2 established family-aimed parks, which just so happen to be owned by the same holding company. As such, it would make no sense for Thorpe to compete with Chessie and Legoland, as it would only serve to dilute Merlin's customer base. In this instance, operating 1 of the 3 as a thrill park makes perfect sense, and as Adz mentioned above, is clearly working for Merlin.
There will always be a target audience for Thorpe, because there will always be a huge number of thrillseekers within their target age bracket. Theme parks are something which seem to be almost recession proof. If a park like Thorpe can continue to prosper in such a difficult economic climate, then it'll thrive when the country is in a more financial stable position.
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CoasterCrazyChris
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Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
But their profits must be half that of Alton Towers at least.
They get well over a million fewer visitors each year but the cost of their investments over the past decade is well above Alton Towers.
They get well over a million fewer visitors each year but the cost of their investments over the past decade is well above Alton Towers.
Re: Thorpe Park 2013: Possible Ride Discussion
Their investments have been higher, yes, but Thorpe is a significantly smaller park, so one would assume that operation and staffing costs are lower.
To make an analogy; when a football club makes a big money signing, it's the transfer fee that everybody remembers, but it's the player's wages that generally have a bigger impact on the club's finances.
The only relevance in Alton Towers' higher guest numbers, from a business perspective, is how much of that represents clear profit. Isn't it also the case that Merlin inherited a large debt when they took on Alton Towers? That's something else that would need to be factored in.
To make an analogy; when a football club makes a big money signing, it's the transfer fee that everybody remembers, but it's the player's wages that generally have a bigger impact on the club's finances.
The only relevance in Alton Towers' higher guest numbers, from a business perspective, is how much of that represents clear profit. Isn't it also the case that Merlin inherited a large debt when they took on Alton Towers? That's something else that would need to be factored in.
Last edited by ponder on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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