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mats
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:40 pm

^No, the seats wont move.
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Mankey
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:33 pm

I've heard this could be a 4D! :| I've read somewhere that some of the seats will turn on future versions of this coaster type (could be rumour though, I hope to god it is!)

I think 4D's just look gimmicky, and uncomfortable.

Also, the problem with wing riding coasters is that any small jolt is intensified by about 100... Hold a ruler and bend it, let it go, and you'll see what I mean... ROUGH! This was the issue with Furious Baco!

I think we've seen most kind of coasters that you can make now, so I'm not surprised we're seeing similar things to what Intamin have already done. Lets just home B&M iron out the crap that Intamin didn't!

"Dormiens-Dave" wrote:
B&M make quality coasters but they are becoming less innovative and also often very forceless


This is the main reason why I'm not too fond of B&M's. To me they're like every other manufacturer. They have a few quality rides, but most are clones or just crap. Vekoma have some very good coasters, but also some horrendous ones, same for Intamin etc etc.

Give me a Mack any day!
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:46 pm

I think this will be the way forward for the Wing Rider type of ride. I loved Furious Baco on the front row but further back on the train it starts to hurt. I think with B&M working on this will make this type of ride an amzing experience.

Add the 4th dimension an this will be something special. Just think of smooth transitions between track elements and smooth train movement. That just sound class. Also with the fact the total hieght of this ride is 30m, a far cry from Furious Baco.
Do we know if this will be launched?

Im gonna watch this topic as Im looking forward to seeing what B&M will do with this ride.
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:00 pm

"shawnoc" wrote:
Do we know if this will be launched?

I doubt it... B&M don't do launches.

Forgive me for not getting excited over this ride. I just can't see the point of a wingrider, whoever makes it.
 
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:11 pm

"DiogoJ42"&quot;][quote=&quot;"shawnoc" wrote:
Do we know if this will be launched?

I doubt it... B&M don't do launches.[/quote]
B&M don't do wing riders either... ;)

:P
 
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:05 pm

"Blaze" wrote:
A zero-g roll on a wing rider should be great, but my concern with these kind of rides is the heartline, with riders so far from the centre, there is always going to be a lot of movement that heartlining is designed to remove.


Actually, the heartline is only based on the up-down distance between the riders' chests and the track... it has nothing to do with the width of the trains. Otherwise, any BM coaster with their 4-across seating would be rough on the outside two seats, which is largely not the case.
 
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:01 pm

"MegaJib"&quot;][quote=&quot;"Blaze" wrote:
A zero-g roll on a wing rider should be great, but my concern with these kind of rides is the heartline, with riders so far from the centre, there is always going to be a lot of movement that heartlining is designed to remove.


Actually, the heartline is only based on the up-down distance between the riders' chests and the track... it has nothing to do with the width of the trains. Otherwise, any BM coaster with their 4-across seating would be rough on the outside two seats, which is largely not the case.[/quote]

The heartline is largely to do with smoothing transitions and providing a ride with minimal lateral forces rather than being about making a ride smooth. On the wider trains the ride requires more elongated transitions to minimise the lateral forces on the further seats, this is something Intamin had no idea about when it came to designing Furious Baco and it's what causes the excessive vibrations and stress on the trains. B&M on the other hand have the data from the wider dive machine trains which should work largely in their favour.
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:38 pm

this is something Intamin had no idea about when it came to designing Furious Baco


I'm sorry, and I don't mean to sound rude.

But a large corporation like Intamin that hire excellent engineers and physicists will know pretty much exactly the behaviour of forces on all elements of their rides, using detailed simulation/prototypes.
 
DiogoJ42

Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:42 pm

"wburgess" wrote:
But a large corporation like Intamin that hire excellent engineers and physicists will know pretty much exactly the behaviour of forces on all elements of their rides, using detailed simulation/prototypes.

Likewise, I don't want to sound argumental, but if I may play devil's advocate here: They didn't realise the inline twist on Maverick would be as violent as it was. They had to remove it before the ride opened. All companies, no matter how big, can make mistakes.
 
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:46 pm

"wburgess" wrote:
this is something Intamin had no idea about when it came to designing Furious Baco


I'm sorry, and I don't mean to sound rude.

But a large corporation like Intamin that hire excellent engineers and physicists will know pretty much exactly the behaviour of forces on all elements of their rides, using detailed simulation/prototypes.

Of course. However, what many people can (and do) do is compare the products of Intamin with those of others, say B&M, Vekoma and Gerstlauer. In doing so, it's fairly clear that some manufacturers create smoother rides than others.

In saying what he did, CCJared wasn't claiming that he knows better than Intamin, merely that he can compare Intamin's coasters to others. Heck, if I made a coaster, it'd probably kill a few people, even though I have a degree in Physics. Doesn't mean I can't give constructive criticism to any ride ;)

Edit: Think Diogo's point above sums it up perfectly. Any company can make mistakes.
 
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:08 pm

CCJared wasn't claiming that he knows better than Intamin


Sorry, I wasn't make to imply that. I was merely suggesting that Intamin have a good idea of what they are doing.

I think it is amazing that there is such a difference in the comfort of roller-coasters between the manufacturers. I always thought comfort as the number one aspect! It may be thrilling but if it gives you a headache (Colossus!) then it becomes less enjoyable!

I'm sure the B&M beast will be very smooth however!
 
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:03 am

I think B&M can also learn from some of Intamin's issues here, and they have head time to develop their designs, so hopefully we wont have the same problems with a B&M Wing Rider as an Intamin.
I have no doubt the B&M will be smoother, but I also have a nagging feeling that it may also be fairly forceless, due to making sure it doesn't go through the elements to quickly etc.
One of my main problems on the Intamins though are those restraints. On most new(er) Intamin's with the Rita style restraints, on almost every ride I get my neck smashed into the restraint at some point. I dreaded the inline twist on Furius Baco for this.

Still look forward to seeing what B&M pull out of the bag, and will hopefully give me an excuse for a trip to Gardaland next year!
 
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:35 am

"wburgess" wrote:
CCJared wasn't claiming that he knows better than Intamin


Sorry, I wasn't make to imply that. I was merely suggesting that Intamin have a good idea of what they are doing.

I think it is amazing that there is such a difference in the comfort of roller-coasters between the manufacturers. I always thought comfort as the number one aspect! It may be thrilling but if it gives you a headache (Colossus!) then it becomes less enjoyable!


Sure, Intamin know what they're doing, but I've always felt that a lot of the rides they manufacture are lazy and in some cases half arsed. The wing riders being a prime example of that. With B&M you don't get that. They tend to work harder and do their research and use a lot of data to design and develop their ideas. I mean just developing Air took them 8 years! God only knows how long they've been working on this, more than likely before Intamin and perhaps before Arrow/S&S did it.

B&M tend to be a lot more thorough and mapped out rather than rushed and half arsed like Intamin, that's all I'm saying, and like DiogoJ42 says, all companies make mistakes, what separates B&M from the rest is that they tend not to make them as often as Intamin does. I mean how many B&Ms do you know that have had track removed/redesigned?
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:39 pm

Completely agree with CCJared here, it would seem that Intamin didn't think about the 'heart lining' of furious Baco; even though the likes B&M used far wider trains and managed to get the heart line spot on for a smooth ride before Baco was probably even on the drawing board. Although it baffles me a little as the actual track layout designer (Ing.-BAüro Stengel GmbH) designs both Intamin and B&M coasters...

This leads me to believe either Intamin provided Stengel with incorrect data of where the rider's heat line would be on Furious Baco or Intamin simply failed on the train design and resulted in them being unable to cope with the stress of the speed and forces. My guess would be that the latter is the reason as Intamin are not exactly renowned for their train design (for example, Colossus' trains). Even restraint design can determine a smooth or rough ride, which is often the main problem.

I think it's safe in saying that B&M's take on the wing rider idea will probably be a far better attempt than Intamin's as their train and restraint designs are far more superior to that of Intamin. It will certainly be interesting to see what B&M do with a wing rider design but you could probably guarantee that ride comfort is probably on the top of their priorities.
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:48 pm

"michael" wrote:
Although it baffles me a little as the actual track layout designer (Ing.-BAüro Stengel GmbH) designs both Intamin and B&M coasters...


That's not entirely true. Intamin and B&M design all they're own rides. All that Stengel does is takes the plans, the layout and the overall data from the companies and analyses, providing them with force data, stress information, steel fatigue analysis and general tests. They also supply the companies with the information they need for track benders and such as well as positioning for the footers. So essentially they provided plans, designs and analysis for the design companies to manufacture from.
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:54 pm

I'm genuinely surprised that this has received more coverage on here? Here are some photos of the construction site:

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Photos courtesy: [url=http://themepark.nl/ubb/ubbthreads.php/topics/1370078/Re_Gardaland_krijgt_Prototype_.html#Post1370078" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;]http://themepark.nl/ubb/ubbthreads.php/ ... ost1370078[/url]
 
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:56 am

Nothing much else is really happening on site except for possible footer excavating. However they have added theming around the rides constructions site telling to people 'keep out' as they have discovered 'something'.

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My guess would be that they are going for a supernatural/monster theme for the ride... It will strike a frightening resemblance to Nemesis if the theming around the construction site is true to the ride theme though...

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This is a much needed addition to the park. For Italy's best theme park it really needs a decent, non-vekoma roller coaster!!!
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:29 pm

"michael" wrote:
Image


To me this looks like an eye and skin of a dragon :? Dragon or Dinosaur themed is my guess :)
 
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:12 pm

Why do I get a feeling that this could be a Dark Forest version of Nemesis' storyline? :?

Don't ask me why I thought of that... #-o
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kingda dude
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Re: B&M Prototype Confirmed for Gardaland in 2011!

Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:49 pm

I think the theming of the ride might just be prehistoric dinosaurs, hence the name X-Raptor which is so clearly shown on the RCDB.

Otherewise I am looking forward to this ride due to it being a B&M prototype and hopefully another truely excelent roller coaster.
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