UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
Williscroft

Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:19 pm

I think their going in the right direction. Drayton Manor is better with its flats than Alton Towers but Alton Towers are better with their coasters. I would say their themeing is quite good actualy. Ok so it might not be seperate themed areas but i think stormforce 10 and Maelstrom are themed extreamly well. Alton towers couldnt of become a resort till they built its first hotel and i think thats exactaly what DMP are doing now. If the DMP plans go ahead you could easily spend 2 days their so it could be called a resort. I can easily spend a hole day in the theme park, then you go pack to your hotel or camp site then the next day spend the day in the water park. Ive spent a hole day at water world before so i see no problem in doing the same here as they seem to be having 20 slides :D Plus if the water park and hotel are a success which i think they will be, then we will get better rides :D
 
Satch

Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:39 pm

1994-Shockwave£4.5m
1995-Klondike Mine:£0.5m
1996-The Huanting-£1m
1998-7 New kid/Family Rides-£1.5m
1999-Storm Force 10-£3.5m
2000-Apocalypse, Theatre and Golden Nuggets-£3m+
2002-Maelstrom-1.3m
2003-Excalibur and Cyclone-£3.5m
2004-Pandamonium and Jolly Roger-£1.5m spent
2005-Project X -£3.5


Shockwave was the last major investment I was talking about. (Yes, I was talking about coasters...)
Klondike was just a refurb of an old ride, harldy an investment.
The Haunting is a poor excuse for a Madhouse
Storm Force 10 - Ok, I overlooked this. Its a great ride, and a worthy asset. But still not high in the investment stakes
Apocalypse - Meh, doesnt make me want to go there
Maelstrom - Never ridden it, but it is a great flat ride, a long time coming to the park
Excalibur - laughable, cyclone - yet another enterprise ride...
Pandemonium - replace a ride with oh, the same ride...

Project X - next big investment after ST10 and Shockwave


My point though is that unless a lot more is added to the park itself, I think it's highly ambitious to imagine themselves being successful in the resort sector. Im excited about the plans, but I would be a tad cautious if I was management. I dont think they are ready to take on the big guns quite yet by repeating almost identically what they did. Where is DMP's "secret weapon?" Perhaps Barnstom isnt the only exciting addition in the next couple of years?


Another thing that gets me is that DMP isnt exactly the ideal setting for a holiday resort. Resorts are meant to be a place to get away from everything, to escape realism, and absorb yourself in the surroundings. This is why Centre Parcs is so successful, and why AT is in a [prme situation to pull it off as a place to go on a small break to. And if your bored of what AT has to offer, you can just take 5 mins out in the car, and experience what the Staffordshire Moorlands has to offer. DMP, well, its in the middle of a residential area on the outskirts of a major town. Not ideal, and doesnt give you the sense of being away from it all. Its too real. Theres no magic, no atmosphere. The people DMP will be aiming for will not prefer this over AT's countryside etc. I seriously think DMP are thinking above themselves
 
Anonymous

Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:00 pm

Also as reported in local paper all current developemenst at alton towers are on hold awaiting aresult from teh retrail about noise which is due to start on the 11th july 2005.


Sorry but that is absolout b*llocks. The noise is only and issue with Oblivion, and doesn't effect any other area of the park accept XS.

I have to say I support both sides...

For Drayton's Ideas...

Even though yes they are completely copying Alton's ideas, there is a sense of unique stuff about there plans. For starters, it looks as though the water-park plans are going to overshadow the Theme Park at this present time. For a theme park, Drayton doesn't really deliver alot compared to the likes of Alton and Thorpe. Who says that a resorts has to be built around an amazing park though? Surely with an OK park and an amazing water complex it'll be worthy of the title. And maybe Drayton have plans to expand the park into something amazing.

Against...

CAll me cynical, but arent they diving before learning to swim? DMP is a far cry from reaching resort status, with few attractions to keep you in the park for a full day. Barnstorm, or whatever it will be is the only real major development in 11 years, but it takes more than 1 good coaster and a couple of flats to bring it up to anywhere near being able to compete in resort status.

11 years ago, there were 2 theme parks that everybody cared about - AT and DMP. AT managed to bring itself up to the place it is now, the UK's top theme park attraction. DMP remained stationary with few installments, some replacements but little improvements, and no coaster in 10 years, whilst AT managed to bring in 4 coasters in this time. Bring to this the lack of any cohesive theme throughout the place, it is almost impossible to call it a theme park, but more favourable to call it a glorified amusement park.

But DMP still see themselves as being AT's rival. AT has some highly ambitious plans, to be able to compete in both the theme park sector, and the Centre Parks/butlins resort sector. DMP fails to compete in just one of these. Their answer? To copy AT with every step. But folliwing AT's shadow is IMO not the answer. They need some serious redevelopment and additions to the park before they can consider themselves as worthy to become a resort. Stormalong Bay in my eyes is them looking through rose-tinted glasses, thinking that the way for them to become close to number 1 again, is to do exactly the same, with no address given to the real problems holding them back.

Dont get me wrong, Im quite excited about Stormalong Bay, but I'd like some originality in their ideas, and maybe some realism. As I said, diving before they can swim. Hopefully there will be some hefty investment in the park itself in coming years too


What he said :)

Lewis
 
Anonymous

Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:08 pm

When you go on cyclone there is a sign saying that you will be removed from the park if you sceam excessively. This was due to a court case put forward by the village i think.
 
Anonymous

Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:52 pm

When you go on cyclone there is a sign saying that you will be removed from the park if you sceam excessively. This was due to a court case put forward by the village i think.


WHAT :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
Oh come on Drayton, that's just poor.

F*ck what was said before, in this case COPY ALTON. Improvise. Be cocky and fight for your rights.
 
Anonymous

Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:04 pm

The sign is so small you can hardly see it
 
Maelstrom
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Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:46 pm

"Alton Towers general manager Russell Barnes said: "This is clearly good news for us and for our local community. Having already invested a considerable sum of money in this project and having now earmarked £250,000 from next year' s budget, we are keen to now move forward to a formal planning application.

"However, to reiterate what we have already said, the long-term growth and investment strategy for Alton Towers - including the road - is subject to a positive outcome from the noise abatement order, which commences on July 11, and a successful season."

taken from one of many article from www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk about alton towers which indicated all current investment plans rest on a possitive outcome in July. Obviously even if a negitive outcome occurs they will still get new rides, but not on the same scale as have seen before.

[url=http]Click here[/url]
Wheres the money coming from for the hotel?-I have been told half is being funded by the park and half from Draytons sister company drayton manor hotels (which run a number of hotels). DRayton mnaor alos have a very sucessfully function room and event business which having an onsite hotel will help further, alot of the hotels business will be to do with this, more than people visiting the park.

The cost of draytons hotel in around £6m this can be compared to the cost of altons first hotel £20m and second £35m, so draytons is much more affordable and with only around £3m coming from the park business (whioch isn't that big of an investment) BPB hotel cost £10m.

The new planned complex is part of a 10 year plan and isn't likly to happen for atleast 5 years plenty of time to have the funding in place, the hotel was orginalally part of a four year investment plant at park starting in 1998 which was to be -7 kids/family rides, 1999-sf10, 2000-apocalypse etc and 2001-hotel. But due to lots of issues ie planning it has been delayed and now will open in 2007, so these plans could be 10 years away, time for lots more rides.

You will nenver get that many coasters at the park as there major problem is noise, as a housing estate is very close and every year complain about noise from the park. Plus the park have said on many occasions they will nenver get planning permission for rides as big as shockwave and apoc, 70-80ft is the highest the park will get away with, unless things change in the future.

Finally Klondike although the same design as the python (which i rode many a time) was actually a new version as the orginal was warn out (RCDB which states it was refurb isn't correct by all accounts) but was hardley a big investment anyway.

My main point about investment is the amount of rides etc added compared to many other uk park ie lightwater valley, chessington in second half of 90's, American adventure (which in late 80's early 90's had loads more visitors than drayton!) etc etc

EDIT BY FC: link changed to reduce post width!
 
i_dont_get_it
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Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:05 pm

I hope the rumours were true about the woodie at drayton That would make drayton brilliant
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Satch

Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:53 am

"Alton Towers general manager Russell Barnes said: "This is clearly good news for us and for our local community. Having already invested a considerable sum of money in this project and having now earmarked £250,000 from next year' s budget, we are keen to now move forward to a formal planning application.

"However, to reiterate what we have already said, the long-term growth and investment strategy for Alton Towers - including the road - is subject to a positive outcome from the noise abatement order, which commences on July 11, and a successful season."


That does not mean anything is put on hold, it means if they have a negative outcome, then they will rethink what is being planned. Nowhere does it say that future development is on hold. And besides, the courtcase is in July, nothing is likely to be added before then anyway
 
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Doopy Dan
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Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:38 am

Klondike was just a refurb of an old ride, harldy an investment.


No it wasnt, people think that the Python, and Klondike were 2 seperate rides, but infact klondike was brand new when it arrived at the park in 1995
 
Satch

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:02 pm

"Doopy Dan" wrote:
Klondike was just a refurb of an old ride, harldy an investment.


No it wasnt, people think that the Python, and Klondike were 2 seperate rides, but infact klondike was brand new when it arrived at the park in 1995


I assume you mean "people think that Oython and Klondike were the same ride"

Personally, Ive always been puzzled by this. I read somewhere that Klondike was a brand new ride to Python, and DMP also advertised it as a brand new attraction. But I always assumed it was just a refurb, considering its the same model ride, on the same site, in the same position. Doesnt make sense to me to replace a ride with an identical ride, and market as new. But then DMP follow this trend very closely...
 
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Doopy Dan
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Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:45 pm

Yeah thats what i ment satch!
 
Maelstrom
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Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:19 pm

the reason being was that python was worn out (wasn't worth cost of repaire) and at the time one year after shockwave the park couldn't affordmuch more than to replace klondike with the same ride (one of the cheapest looping rides on the market).
 
ASR
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Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:48 pm

Sorry to get medievil on my first post, BUT:

DMP remained stationary with few installments, some replacements but little improvements, and no coaster in 10 years


In eleven years Drayton Manor has seen investment in many forms, from rides, to public services, ad let us not forget the zoo - didnt see one of them during my last trip to the towers, did you?. Tussauds was recently sold by Charterhouse Development (CD), a multi million pound corporation that can afford to throw millions into a ride and not bat an eyelid, I am afraid to say that you are seriously miguided on this - money itself does NOT create a good ride, Rita cost six million pounds, more than any ride at DMP - ever, and it is'nt exactly a world beater, it isnt new technology and quite soon it wont be unique to the UK (see Flaming Land) - sorry, but the Towers are being taken on again, this time by FL - who are getting a very similar ride, with a better novelty, for HALF THE PRICE, do you see what I mean?

Lets have another look at it shall we, money is not everything with a ride, Barnstorm is costing the park 3.5 million, oh, Spinball Whizzer cost AT the same amount, and look at that and compare it to Project X - I wonder who got the better deal, a new to the UK, first ever bent cuban eight, 5g thrill coaster withinversions and lapbars OR a family ride that was first .... oh wait, it wasnt, Tussauds were undercut again, this time by Camelot in Chorley, they got screwed out of a UK first by a park that has been threatened with closure.

Shockwave was the last major investment I was talking about. (Yes, I was talking about coasters...)


You said AND, so you meant that they havnt had a major development AND havnt had a major coaster, zing!

11 years ago, there were 2 theme parks that everybody cared about - AT and DMP.


You are forgetting, BPB has always been a major player, and AA was at that time, only four years before that, the Missile was voted top coaster in the UK, remember that?

DMP fails to compete in just one of these. Their answer? To copy AT with every step.


Laughable, I dont see Dive Machines at DMP, or Flyers, or Launched rides, or sub standard flats that are generally hated, and lets not forget, you dont copy a park straight of, ride development takes plenty of TIME, not just ripping them out of the hat and slapping them in, Apocalypse wont ahve taken for ever to design - true, but the new technology cars will have done, they will have been a task to complete.

Stormalong Bay in my eyes is them looking through rose-tinted glasses, thinking that the way for them to become close to number 1 again


It's three years away mate, coasters, rides and themeing can be added in that time, indeed the parks next coaster is set to be installed in 2006, and maybe something in 2007 aswell, you are forgetting that this is a FUTURE development, there may be more rides coming to entice people to DMP before hand.
 
Williscroft

Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:55 pm

Very well said ASR, i agree with you on most things but i think you were a bit harsh on Alton Towers lol. I think Drayton Manor have made some great investments in the past few years. They are also voted the best UK attraction for children so their doing something right. I think there stepping away from the family look a bit now though and like ASR, said, theres still some years to come untill the water parks built and thats even if it dose get built. I didnt know about this 2006 coaster, 2 coasters in 2 years :D I hope a current ride dosent have to be removed though to make room for it.
 
i_dont_get_it
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Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:09 pm

I hope a current ride dosent have to be removed though to make room for it.

Drayton has tons of spare land if you look fromt he shocwave lift hill.
Lets hope if the 2006 coaster is going to happen it is going to be the woodie :!:
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Williscroft

Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:26 pm

i_dont_get_it, I know thats what i always think, they have loads of land were they can exspand but ive herd many people say that for Drayton Manor to have a new ride they must get rid of one. Thats why i said that but personaly i dont see how that can be ture as why would a guidline like that be put on the park when they have pelnty of space :? I didnt even know they were planning for a woodie but if they were it wont be here for 2006 as construction would of started probably before barnstrom i would think, but that depends on the size. :D
 
ASR
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Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:36 pm

Oh, Willscroft, dont get me wrong, I think AT is a very good park, one of the UK's best certainly, but that does'nt mean that people can automatically dismiss DMP as crap, or "no where near as goo" - obviously DMP is a succesful park, they didnt give in to the Towers financial might 11 years ago when Nemesis opened, and they certainly ar'nt doing it now. Credit where it's due would be sweet :D
 
Williscroft

Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:51 pm

Same here ASR, people are always putting drayton manor down but i think its a great park, thats why i brought a season ticket the other week :D I honestly think its going to give parks like thorpe park a run for their money in a few years and i can see it being the uks no 2 theme park eventualy :D
 
Satch

Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:21 am

"ASR" wrote:
Sorry to get medievil on my first post, BUT:

DMP remained stationary with few installments, some replacements but little improvements, and no coaster in 10 years


In eleven years Drayton Manor has seen investment in many forms, from rides, to public services, ad let us not forget the zoo - didnt see one of them during my last trip to the towers, did you?. Tussauds was recently sold by Charterhouse Development (CD), a multi million pound corporation that can afford to throw millions into a ride and not bat an eyelid, I am afraid to say that you are seriously miguided on this - money itself does NOT create a good ride, Rita cost six million pounds, more than any ride at DMP - ever, and it is'nt exactly a world beater, it isnt new technology and quite soon it wont be unique to the UK (see Flaming Land) - sorry, but the Towers are being taken on again, this time by FL - who are getting a very similar ride, with a better novelty, for HALF THE PRICE, do you see what I mean?

Lets have another look at it shall we, money is not everything with a ride, Barnstorm is costing the park 3.5 million, oh, Spinball Whizzer cost AT the same amount, and look at that and compare it to Project X - I wonder who got the better deal, a new to the UK, first ever bent cuban eight, 5g thrill coaster withinversions and lapbars OR a family ride that was first .... oh wait, it wasnt, Tussauds were undercut again, this time by Camelot in Chorley, they got screwed out of a UK first by a park that has been threatened with closure.
Erm, I never said anything regarding money. Please dont say I am misguided. What I am saying is that DMP have not invested in the right places to be able to compete in the market it assumes it is already established. Yes, a topnotch coaster doesnt need to cost in the tens of millions. But there has been very little arriving in DMP for the past 10 years that stands out, with the exception of SF10. Thats where I feel the mistake lies.
11 years ago, there were 2 theme parks that everybody cared about - AT and DMP.


You are forgetting, BPB has always been a major player, and AA was at that time, only four years before that, the Missile was voted top coaster in the UK, remember that?

BPB is not considered a theme park, but an amusement park. It is operating in a different sector than both AT and DMP. The big one arrived 1994, yes, but that proved to be a novelty with many people. But in terms of theme parks, AT and DMP were the leading 2

DMP fails to compete in just one of these. Their answer? To copy AT with every step.


Laughable, I dont see Dive Machines at DMP, or Flyers, or Launched rides, or sub standard flats that are generally hated, and lets not forget, you dont copy a park straight of, ride development takes plenty of TIME, not just ripping them out of the hat and slapping them in, Apocalypse wont ahve taken for ever to design - true, but the new technology cars will have done, they will have been a task to complete.
Erm, I am referring to their plans of a hotel and now a water park. Im talking about their future plans which are repeating what At did 10 years previously
Stormalong Bay in my eyes is them looking through rose-tinted glasses, thinking that the way for them to become close to number 1 again


It's three years away mate, coasters, rides and themeing can be added in that time, indeed the parks next coaster is set to be installed in 2006, and maybe something in 2007 aswell, you are forgetting that this is a FUTURE development, there may be more rides coming to entice people to DMP before hand.
Thats what I have been saying, if DMP think they are ready to be a resort, then there must be some plans for something else in the next coming years. But nothing has been released or hinted at, so it may be there will be nothing, and DMP will be relying on Barnstorm for the next 10 years before opening the "resort"

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