UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
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Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:37 pm

Does the floor drop automatically when a train is dispached, or does it have to be lowered, and then the train sent out? Only if I were doing it, it'd have the floors on an independent system. Push a button to tell the floor to lower, then, a sensor tells the op if the floor is ok. Then if the readout says it's clear, the op sets the train out to dispatch. The ride itself has nothing to do with the floor at all. That way the op controls the communication between the floors and the ride. Ofcourse, this could still cause problems if the ride had to abort the dispatch, but as long as they can raise the floor before too long there is no problem.
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Big Dave

Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:48 pm

The dispatch is all automatic, but when you want to do something else, you have to do it manually
 
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Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:52 pm

So would it be pheasable to seperate the systems? I realise it would take alot of work, having to change the dispatch procedure.
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Big Dave

Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:52 pm

"DiogoJ42" wrote:
I know I'm not an expert on these things, but it sounds to me like Air's problems stem from software, not hardware. :?


Kinda, more to do with how the control panel operates. I think B&M simply did not think about what happens if they need to bring it down often and therefore just slapped a quick and easy way of doing it, without thinking about how practical it was. I mean in theory there is nothing wrong with the current system as everything works. Its when you try and get the best out of the system that things go wrong.

You want to bring the row down but dont want to unlock the restraints has it will mean having to recheck them all, so you try and cheat the system by holding both the lock and unlock buttons. Normally this works, but occasionally the station operator lets go of unlock too soon and causes a floor error. Its not really the station operators fault has they are under pressure to keep the restraints locked whilst bringing the rows down.

Also I think they need to improve the floor in general has it rattles far too much and the sensors often cause problems. I think they could remove the cam system that currently runs the floor and have an hydraulic system, but that would mean having to redo all the dispatch timings and a lot of work on the floors.
Last edited by Big Dave on Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Dormiens-Dave

Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:53 pm

Really B&M need to re-programme the system so that is a failed dispatch occurs the system lowers the craft automatically without opening all of the harnesses.

I assume though that they havn't bothered because of the new floor design on all new flyers
 
Big Dave

Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:57 pm

Automatic is not an option though as nothing is allowed to move without the operators telling it to and as far as the computer is concerned a dangerous event has happened and it wants you to do it manually.
 
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Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:58 pm

Well that's understanable, but it's a bit of a farce how it's done :|
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Dormiens-Dave

Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:59 pm

but there could be a way of doing so that doesnt open the harnesses, another button that can be depressed instead. That way it would still be a manual operation but just with higher IQ :D

Would save all the faffing
 
Big Dave

Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:00 pm

Yeah, I think the technical services team did have a go at messing with timings and stuff last year to improve reliability, but it still kept happening. I think they should have done this many many years ago and its a case of too little too late!
 
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Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:05 pm

So let me get this straight: The ride flags up an error; The operator tells the train to return to seating position; By default the ride will want to lower the train, raise the floor, and unlock the restraints; The operator doesn't want to waste time so holds both the lock and unlock buttons after telling the crat to lower; This prevents the restraints from opening; if the unlock button is released too soon (Before the floor has raised fully) the ride will attept to open the restraints; It then realises the floor is not in the right position and throw a wobbly, flashing up a floor error; This then takes more time having to reset the floors.

And breath :P

Is that roughly what goes on?
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Dormiens-Dave

Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:11 pm

Sounds about right

Also correct me if im wrong Dave but from those i know who work on Air alot of errors are caused by the station op (the one at the back of the station) releasing their dispatch button at the wrong times.

EDIT

Just realised this is getting a bit off topic :D
Last edited by Dormiens-Dave on Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Big Dave

Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:19 pm

Basically yes, but to clear it up heres a quick reminder :P

Dispatch button pressed >> Leg flap not far enough back >> Senor detects leg flap >> Ride stops and displays harness error >> Normal dispatch button will no longer work as the ride can see a fault

Station operator presses the unlock button >> Train lowers to seated position >> Continuing to press unlock will unlock the harnesses >> Station operator instead holds lock whilst pressing the unlock button

Despite this pressing unlock for too long will override the lock command >> Station operator has to release unlock before the harnesses unlock >> Releasing the unlock button before the floor has fully raised causes a floor error >> Soooooooo the Station operator has a very small moment of time to get it right.

and all you lot think that all they do is push a button and off it goes lol
 
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Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:23 pm

Would it not be easier (and ultimately quicker) to just let them unlock and recheck, at least until someone comes up with a less near-impossible system? :?
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Big Dave

Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:53 pm

Yes maybe but say 70% of the time the station operator gets it right, its just that 30% when it goes wrong. So I cannot see them changing it. All it really needs is a quicker way to reset floor platten errors and/or a smoother floor platten system instead of the current bumpy and bangy cam system.

P.S. The only way I'd ever be happy with them removing the floor is if they turned up the volume of the "prepare for air" speech and PROMISED to keep it at this higher volume. So far the floor lowering is the only bit of drama at the beginning of the ride!

... and yes we are going off topic but lets face it, they are not going to do anything exciting with the tunnel so we might as well talk about the floor instead.
 
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Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:38 pm

"Big Dave" wrote:
... and yes we are going off topic but lets face it, they are not going to do anything exciting with the tunnel so we might as well talk about the floor instead.

I'm actually finding this massively interesting, so really hope it's not curtailed!

"Big Dave" wrote:
Despite this pressing unlock for too long will override the lock command >>

OK, from what I've read, this strikes me as the heart of the problem. Surely the quickest, easiest way to solve this entire issue would be to reverse this, and have lock override unlock* (which, incidentally, I would have logically thought would be the case anyway... fail-safe and all that...)

* - NB: I realise that many people infinitely more experienced/qualified than me will have thought about this problem, and no doubt come up with and dismissed this solution - I'm more interested as to where the flaw in my logic is...

"Big Dave" wrote:
P.S. The only way I'd ever be happy with them removing the floor is if they turned up the volume of the "prepare for air" speech and PROMISED to keep it at this higher volume. So far the floor lowering is the only bit of drama at the beginning of the ride!

Indeed so - I really quite love the current floor. When that floor lowers, and you get that beautiful heavy "Ffffwumpp" noise, you get a fair bit of air rushing up the cracks at the side, which just slightly puffs at your hair/clothing. That just sets the entire ride for me :D.
 
Big Dave

Re: Air Tunnel

Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:13 am

I think the problem is that you are in effect having two conflicting commands. Pressing unlock brings it down so you HAVE to have that pressed and you obviously want it to come down. You want the harnesses to stay locked so you HAVE to have that button pressed in as well. The unlock button also unlocks the harnesses and obviously you want it to do that when the button is pressed.

So the problem lies with what command should the system follow when two conflicting commands are pressed. You would think that you would want it so the lock button overrides the unlock, but you still need the unlock to work when bringing the craft down. So you will then say ok have the unlock override the lock and then change as soon as the floor raises, but getting that to work would be a load of work and would cause probably even more problems than it fixes.
 
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Re: Air Tunnel

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:28 pm

shame air cant have some nice blue lights with the spray they use on nemesis inferno!
 
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Re: Air Tunnel

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:32 pm

I don't think it's so much that it can't. More that they can't be bothered. It just keeps getting put to the bottom of the list of priorities :|
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Re: Air Tunnel

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:59 pm

It would be a lot easier if lower craft and unlock harnesses were different buttons...
 
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Re: Air Tunnel

Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:30 pm

:) why dont they retheme air so it looks like nemisis sister and a nother monster appers

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