UK theme parks from another point of view!

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PeteB
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New flats for Dark Forest?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:48 am

Aside from the speculation regarding hex becoming part of Dark Forest, do you think we'll see any new flat rides in the new area? I would certainly hope so, given that only 2 rides exist there at the moment and theres also a lack of any decent shops.

Both X Sector and Forbidden Valley have 2 flat rides, and the old Ug Land used to have a couple too. What you do think we'll see come March 20th?
 
fishdalf
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:27 am

I hate to be pedantic, but this should be posted here.
I don't think we'll see any new flat rides in the area for 2010, if they were to add them I think we'd be looking at 2011 at the earliest now.
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Wes
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:34 am

I'd even say 2012 at the earliest.
 
PeteB
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:41 pm

"fishdalf" wrote:
I hate to be pedantic, but this should be posted here.
I don't think we'll see any new flat rides in the area for 2010, if they were to add them I think we'd be looking at 2011 at the earliest now.


Being pedantic in return, that topic has become full of fanboys throwing their handbags at each other over Rita's theme & story. So I thought I'd start a new, unrelated one. Im sure it can be happily moved to the SW forum once the mods unlock it to new topics..

Anyhoo, i thought the point of flats was to ease the queues on the main rides? Nemesis got ripsaw and blade, Oblivion got submission and enterprize. Both arease were rethemed and had new multi million pound rollercoasters installed at the same time so is it unrealistic to expect the same for Dark Forest?

Bear in mind that a decent flat can be had for £250,000 or less.
 
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:15 pm

Tis fine in here as it's discussing the long term future of the area ether than just sw6. I think there'd just been confusion with your first post Pete where you'd asked what we would see in 2010. I think the assumption was made that you meant come opening day will we see a topscan and other such epic flats awaiting us :p.


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seanyboyuk
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:10 pm

I think its pretty well obvious its gonna be them robo arms and they will be tied in with sw6 some how.

The best idea going about on the forum is to have several with different intensity levels spread out the area or unless alton can build a huge one i cant see it working, but who knows.

Personally i dont think robo arms would suit Alton due to their low throughput. Maybe something like eagles claw at LWV would be a better buy.
 
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Sir John Talbot
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:41 pm

Indeed, so far TH13TEEN is essentially identicle to the Dark Forest concepts we saw in summer.

So it would've surpised me if they followed them further and installed Robo Arms. Would be quite exiting! And a great way to develop that vast expanse at the boundary of the area that would be awkward for any singular flat ride.
 
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ThrillJunkie
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:06 pm

I don't expect to see any other new attraction's in the dark forest this year it will be Thirteen, Rita, and re-themed take away cafe's and maybe even re themed arcade.

But i do expect at least 1 or maybe 2 new flats in the area for 2011.
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PeteB
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:55 pm

Roboarms. You see this is kinda why I created the topic, as originally the concepts suggested these roboarms, but theres been mass debate about universal claiming exclusive rights to them or something?

Alton must has a replacement in mind surely...
 
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:39 am

Methinks Robo Arms are a bad idea for Alton. They seem more like something you'd find in a shopping mall.

I'd like to see the return of a Breakdancer to Alton. It's small and could probably be squeezed in under the track of Rita and Th13teen.
 
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:42 am

Roboarms are only exclusive to Universal on a track. The robo-coaster.
Robo arms are fine as quite a few have popped up since the announcement of WWOHP
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:05 am

"PeteB" wrote:
Roboarms. You see this is kinda why I created the topic, as originally the concepts suggested these roboarms, but theres been mass debate about universal claiming exclusive rights to them or something?

Alton must has a replacement in mind surely...


there are already at least 2 robo arms currently in the Uk. One in an indoor ski centre in Scotland and the other being installed on a certain new pier I keep bringing up :-)
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Chris W
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:15 am

I think some RoboArms could definitely work in the area, especially as they could be themed appropriately.

Walt Disney World have also recently bought a set of RoboArms so I'd say its clear that Universal do not have any exclusivity over the stand-alone arms.

Obviously, capacity would be an issue but all flats are anyway.
And, they would make a nice addition for 2011. (eg, the trees have taken over the Dark Forest further...)
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ThrillJunkie
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:46 am

"Disco Ball" wrote:
I think some RoboArms could definitely work in the area, especially as they could be themed appropriately.

Walt Disney World have also recently bought a set of RoboArms so I'd say its clear that Universal do not have any exclusivity over the stand-alone arms.

Obviously, capacity would be an issue but all flats are anyway.
And, they would make a nice addition for 2011. (eg, the trees have taken over the Dark Forest further...)


the robo arms would have a major capacity issue. The only ones I've seen carry 2 or 4 passengers at a time where most other flats in the park can carry 30 to 40 per a cycle which means you would need at least 10 arms for them to be effective.

Please Alton don't do it!
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seanyboyuk
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:24 pm

Ive said before and ill say it again, something like eagles claw at lwv would look great and could easily be themed very well to fit into the area.

Its a great ride and i have never seen or heard of any major downtime so for alton to get a brand spanker they would be onto a winner. To make it a bit more intense alton should program the ride to go almost upside down a few more times rather than lwv it only seems to hit the high spot the once during the cycle.

The spinning cycle at the beggining of the ride would tie in with the thirteen story as to being sucked into the crypt then thrown out. The drop down platform could reveal something special or instead of a drop down floor possibly a trap door style floor to just increase the through put that extra bit.

The structure of the ride could easily be converted into tree branches too.

Somebody must think this is a good idea also please!...
 
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Johno
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:36 pm

Quite easily you could have 10 robo arms in a certain area.

No problems there to get 40 people on every 3-5 mins..
 
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:18 pm

Ive said before and ill say it again, something like eagles claw at lwv would look great and could easily be themed very well to fit into the area.

Its a great ride and i have never seen or heard of any major downtime so for alton to get a brand spanker they would be onto a winner. To make it a bit more intense alton should program the ride to go almost upside down a few more times rather than lwv it only seems to hit the high spot the once during the cycle.

The spinning cycle at the beggining of the ride would tie in with the thirteen story as to being sucked into the crypt then thrown out. The drop down platform could reveal something special or instead of a drop down floor possibly a trap door style floor to just increase the through put that extra bit.

The structure of the ride could easily be converted into tree branches too.

Somebody must think this is a good idea also please!..


You raise some fair points there, both Eagles Claw and Vortex are practically bomb proof and are very reliable. The ride type does lend itself very well to the Dark Forest, but that's about where I'd stop. A KMG Afterburner is a VERY fairground ride, in fact, the park models are just adaptations of a portable ride. I don't see this as the way Alton want to go at the moment, and I certainly don't think they intend on building a ride that is so common around the country. Almost every fair has one, and it wouldn't bring a new audience to the park just for the one ride.

The ride cannot swing any higher than the existing models do; If it does it automatically emergency stops and cuts all power. If the ride was designed by KMG to swing higher than current models, the entire framework around the ride would need completely re-engineering. It would cost a fortune for a ride that is still going to be fairly average. A trap door floor would also be difficult, this is because it has to lower from all corners simultaneously and be able to raise again. It wouldn't work; Vortex experiences most of it's downtime due to it's creeping floor that takes a good 30 seconds to lower.

Finally, the rides type throughput, especially based on the 24 seat version installed at LWV is a pathetic 340 PPH. Even Vortex carrying 8 people more and running a short cycle only attains 450 PPH. The throughput is far too low for a signature attraction at a park like Alton. If they were to go for a swing I would see it being something like Maelstrom, with the latest outward facing seating design as it is far less common around the country and a better ride. That said, I don't see the park investing in this type of ride.

The problem with flat rides is financial. They serve one of two purposes; centrepiece or filler. A filler flat is, generally speaking, not advertised, not too expensive and would not draw much of a new audience to the park. A centrepiece flat is high budget, highly marketed and has potential to pull a new crowd. The problem Alton face is two fold. The construction hight limit prevents the park doing anything extreme, which is, unfortunately, the way flat rides are going currently (Ie: Height race with Screamin' Swings, Sky Swatters, Combo Towers). The other option is a new concept, which, there are currently none. This puts Alton in a difficult position. They could install a high budget proven concept flat ride, with a large marketing campaign and attempt to pull a crowd, or go for a cheap option simply as a filler ride.

The issue then extends to what type of ride would actually be suitable. As far as any form of spinning swing goes, with Maelstrom being so close to Alton Towers the impact could be highly negative. Many visitors living within 50 miles of the park will already have ridden Maelstrom and look at a similar ride in one of two ways, either, Maelstrom was really good, I can't wait to go on this one, or, that's just like Maelstrom, what's the point in going on something I've already been on? The same would apply to any inward facing swing, but on an even greater level as they are currently seen on fairgrounds across the country.

To this end, I really don't have any idea what sort of flat ride would suit Alton. A robo arm would not be much of a centrepiece, although they are not too expensive, so may work well as a filler. That said, I personally hate the look of the rides, so hope they don't install any.

For now, I think I'll just get excited about Th13teen.
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seanyboyuk
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:46 pm

At last somebody kinda sees my thinking lol

I doubt alton would install lots of robo arms, maybe 2 at the most thats it and if they did apply them to the area it would be fair notice for the park to put a sign on the queue that there is a slow throughput or something as people would get frustrated.
 
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ihavenoknees
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:56 pm

trailing behind a bit with this but

"Johno" wrote:
Quite easily you could have 10 robo-arms in a certain area.


This would need a larger area than you may think. Legoland in Denmark has about 8 enclosed and the area is huge. it could be compacted more or not all bunched together but the space required is not really suitable for parks constricted by space.
see above[/i]
 
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teddlesking
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Re: New flats for Dark Forest?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:02 pm

I cant understand why everyone is obsessed with these robo arms? How did they come up in discussions in the first place? I think they would be an aweful buy for towers..they just need something like the good old bone shaker to fill the gap where the ug swingers were...please? =P~
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