UK theme parks from another point of view!

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Maelstrom
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:28 pm

In the 10 year plan they said we would see 10 medium to large new attractions which would indicate that we will see good investment over the next 10 years. Medium sized attractions generally have budgets of around £4-£8m and then large attractions up to £15m. I would expect the next big budget ride (ie coaster) in either 2013 or 2014 (thorpe will most likly be opening coasters in 2012 and 2015, merlin have said they like to add a big ride every 3 years)

We will also see more indoor attractions esp at the front of the park so can run them during the winter at christmas events etc. I would think we could see the following the the near future-

some kind of 4d cinema (possibly a motion based one so is different to what most uk parks have)
New kiddie coaster replacing beastie
New Water ride replacing the flume (Mack water coaster possible due to good capacity and different to anything else in the uk)


I think we will see a large scale indoor ride on the coaster corner site, maybe an indoor coaster.
 
Anonymous

Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:16 pm

I think they should put a ride like detonator in the X sector!
 
Maelstrom
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Re: alton towers next thrill ride

Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:40 pm

I really hope Alton's next installation is finally given a bigger budget compared to the previous rides. It seems that the general budget for all the major installations is about £15m on average, but with what we've got from th13teen seems pretty poor compared to previous installations, most of that seems to have been spent on theming and designing the ride and the station, I was hoping we'd see more value for money with the track, like Nemesis or Air. A long scary thrill from start to finish, with less emphasis on the world's first and more on the actual coaster. We got Rita for £8m, Oblivion, Air and Nemesis for between £12m-£15m, imagine what we could get for £20m-£25m.[/quote]

We are unlikly to get rides costing £20-£25m in the near future, very few parks outside of Disney and Universal spend that kinda of money on a ride (as they wouldnt get the return on the investment). That would be over $30m and no park outside of Disney and Universal in the states has spent that much in one ride as far as i am aware.

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FallenAngel
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Re: alton towers next thrill ride

Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:36 pm

"Maelstrom" wrote:
We are unlikly to get rides costing £20-£25m in the near future, very few parks outside of Disney and Universal spend that kinda of money on a ride (as they wouldnt get the return on the investment). That would be over $30m and no park outside of Disney and Universal in the states has spent that much in one ride as far as i am aware.

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I know that it's unlikely we will get something with that sort of budget, but my main point was that I would like to see £15m of rollercoaster and then some for theming, not £5m of coaster then £10m of theming and development on a so-so worlds first element.

Just feel that Alton is due a massive world beating coaster which it hasnt has realistically since nemesis. Nemesis is still world class, the other secret weapons are fantastic but have been recreated bigger and better elsewhere. We know the money is there, its just whether or not merlin will be willing to spend that much on something that big, and i doubt they will be. Its more hope than anything.
 
.Will

Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:02 pm

"FallenAngel""][quote=""Maelstrom" wrote:
We are unlikly to get rides costing £20-£25m in the near future, very few parks outside of Disney and Universal spend that kinda of money on a ride (as they wouldnt get the return on the investment). That would be over $30m and no park outside of Disney and Universal in the states has spent that much in one ride as far as i am aware.

--


I know that it's unlikely we will get something with that sort of budget, but my main point was that I would like to see £15m of rollercoaster and then some for theming, not £5m of coaster then £10m of theming and development on a so-so worlds first element.

Just feel that Alton is due a massive world beating coaster which it hasnt has realistically since nemesis. Nemesis is still world class, the other secret weapons are fantastic but have been recreated bigger and better elsewhere. We know the money is there, its just whether or not merlin will be willing to spend that much on something that big, and i doubt they will be. Its more hope than anything.[/quote]

I agree but what you have to remember about Disney and Six Flags is that they are huge conglomerates and have a lot more money to invest in rides of the scale that you are thinking. Despite this please remember that Alton Towers have strict height and sound limits on all of their attractions and it is very difficult to get planning permission. Furthermore Th13teen opens on Saturday don't write it off just yet, just as it isn’t as big or as fast as roller coasters in America or Europe doesn’t mean it cant be great! Also Merlin take huge risks investing in rides, some what more than Disney, so Merlin have to pick the best ride for the best park for the best area. It’s a long arduous process but when the process is complete we do receive some fantastic rides!

:D
 
FallenAngel
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:21 pm

My whole point has been Alton need to invest more in a ride because of the height restrictions and therefore need a bigger budget to try and compete with those who don't have such restrictions. I know they have tried to go the extra mile with th13teen and bring a world first, but I would much have preferred some massive expansive B&M than what theyve provided us with. Nemesis proves you can have a fantastic looping inverting coaster within all the restrictions applied on the park.

I know I'm not the only one crying out for inversions! Even a £15m budget would produce something special if they just built us a no-frills rollercoaster. No gimmicks just quality speed, loops, adrenaline. With the number of manufacturers and designs on the market they could easily find a coaster design to
provide this. I just don't see why it all has to be about the world first.

Rita was built on a considerably lower budget, granted the theming was terrible but it provided the thrills that most people cried out for and still has some of the longest queues in the park because of it. That didn't have a world first or a gimmick was just unadulterated fun and did the job it was meant to. I don't see why alton can't just be content with building high quality rides and have to go running back to john wardley because they can't survive without him. I'm sorry that it seems like I'm having a bitch but I really feel alton is lagging behind the times a bit now and they seriously need a return to form with another breathtaking ride, and looking at th13teen i think I'm still gonna be waiting a long time.
 
bradpeet
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:41 pm

"FallenAngel" wrote:
My whole point has been Alton need to invest more in a ride because of the height restrictions and therefore need a bigger budget to try and compete with those who don't have such restrictions. I know they have tried to go the extra mile with th13teen and bring a world first, but I would much have preferred some massive expansive B&M than what theyve provided us with. Nemesis proves you can have a fantastic looping inverting coaster within all the restrictions applied on the park.

I know I'm not the only one crying out for inversions! Even a £15m budget would produce something special if they just built us a no-frills rollercoaster. No gimmicks just quality speed, loops, adrenaline. With the number of manufacturers and designs on the market they could easily find a coaster design to
provide this. I just don't see why it all has to be about the world first.

Rita was built on a considerably lower budget, granted the theming was terrible but it provided the thrills that most people cried out for and still has some of the longest queues in the park because of it. That didn't have a world first or a gimmick was just unadulterated fun and did the job it was meant to. I don't see why alton can't just be content with building high quality rides and have to go running back to john wardley because they can't survive without him. I'm sorry that it seems like I'm having a bitch but I really feel alton is lagging behind the times a bit now and they seriously need a return to form with another breathtaking ride, and looking at th13teen i think I'm still gonna be waiting a long time.


Firstly, I'm sure I have seen it said before that the novelty value of rides in Alton Towers incorporating holes in the ground to get around the height limit has gone about as far as it can. Any more will just be seen as either lack of imagination or just all the rides being too similar.

Why the obsession with inversions? With the apparent limitations on the number of major rides that are permitted, each ride has to earn its place by adding something new. It remains to be seen how good the outdoor part of Th13teen will be, but from what we know from testing it does seem that the design has potential for airtime and the feel of speed that a terrain coaster can produce. But if it doesn't provide that, then I would like to see a proper terrain coaster built - preferably a woodie. This would probably require more than one lift hill due to the height limits, but if properly designed this need not distract from the ride experience. Tyre drives seem to be gaining popularity and functionality - so I wonder if it would be possible to have a lift hill using a tyre drive at the beginning of the ride, and then some sort of accelerated boost (again using a tyre drive) midway through the course. It could even be possible to have a similar boosted lift to Universal's Incredible Hulk part way through the course - I would imagine that would be pretty thrilling.

I do agree that the "world's first" thing is overdone - and a hostage to fortune too. (No matter how good the world's first is, as soon as it is produced people will be working on beating it. Oblivion and AIR are often compared unfavourably with rides that have come 10 years after them)

And RITA as originally installed was all but a "car park" coaster. It was installed at the time that Tussauds seemed to have lost interest or direction as far as theme parks were concerned. I know that it is a popular ride, although queues do not tell the whole story. (Spinball takes longest to clear its queue line because of capacity issues - and RITA could have been designed with a double station similar to AIR).

I still feel that Alton Towers has a special atmosphere due to its long and varied history, and the way the grounds have evolved - if they start installing more rides on the same basis as RITA that are breathtaking as a ride but don't really belong in a Theme Park, I think they could lose that. That would be a sad day for me - and I have a feeling a bad decision for the park in the long term.
 
Dormiens-Dave

Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:57 pm

All prototypes no matter where they are built will always be succeded by bigger and better rides in most cases.


The reason having the first of something at towers is that its really the best they can do when it comes to getting noticed, they cant build big, multi-inversions requires a lot of potential energy which requires height or multiple lift hills (boring), therefore why not have these worlds first, oblivion and air may have been beaten in their own catagory but not in the UK and in some cases not even in europe so we still get something unique to enjoy.
 
deeve
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:41 am

Wood, Water and inversions three things Alton lacks.

Wood

Valley coaster scrapped. I think there was talk of a woodie where Merrie England was know Mutiny Bay that never materialised. A rumour is the old coaster corner is a potential site for a woodie will wiat and see. Forbiden Valley extended once again into the car park is more realistic possibility. Lots of space and could be made to be more thrilling than going for a small family woodie.


Water

Congo and log flume are so 1980s these days. Rapids rides are so much more advanced in the states at places like California Adventure and Islands of Adventure its time Alton Towers stepped up to the plate in that department.

Inversions

Only 6 inversions for the entire park. With Corkscrew and Thunderlooper being removed over the past 14 years or so inversions have slowly diminished. Air's inversions are not exactly mind blowing so Nemesis is the only multi inversion coaster in the entire park. Inversions arent everything but its nice to have a selection of coasters that have them.

It would be tough to build a coaster that combines all three but i have an area not mentioned much to have a coaster that could be themed accordingly. Kantanga Canyon incorporating Gloomy Wood. A ride like Indiana Jones at Disney that is a woodie that has inversions and that has a water feature that is some sort of worlds first. It could be like illususion type ride that gives the impression that your underwater but when your not. Im sure with some inteligent enginering something could be made possible.

It could be you emerge from this illusionistic type tunnel near the end and then it suddenly drops like a log flume into water.
 
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El Patricko
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:55 am

Well personally i can see the farm being scrapped in the next five years, send any animals to the slaughterhouse or chessington, merge with storybook land, and or advenutreland/vice versa. I reckon that will be the place alton put thier next interactive dark ride, near the entrance somewhere near the tractors/riverbank wye eye, in the next five four years? i can hope.

Also i happen to think katanga kanyon is the best place for a new intense expirience as a potential area merge with gloomy wood to boot.

Overall i think merging some of the current areas would do no harm (hex twinned with th13teen, CCL twinned with new opened up coaster corner, including water ride. farm twinned with storybook land etc)

By doing this i think the park would have a more immersive theme and improve continuity (flume and somewhat, still RITA grrr) :D
"If Alton Towers get a shrek 4d attraction next year i, El Patricko will eat a steak garnished with pond weed"

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cmpunk771
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:03 am

I could see Alton Building a Dark ride in the coming years, i dont mean a child one i mean a ride like revenge of the mummy, there is no reason why not as it dosnt need that much height and it could be a huge hit.
 
Rollercoaster5000
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:57 am

Revenge of the Mummy is an indoor roller coaster but I get what you mean :D. I would like to see an indoor roller coaster in the Black Hole tent.
 
Mick
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:15 pm

"Dormiens-Dave" wrote:
requires a lot of potential energy which requires height or multiple lift hills (boring...


Or linear accelerator systems, either electromagnetic or otherwise...
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stewart306
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:20 pm

I know it'll never happen due to height restrictions but the black hole tent would be great for a launch tower, made into two floors, the bottom could be the station then once on the ride rise up into the top floor of the tent to a 3D cinema experience giving the story of what is about to happen (perhaps an oblivion-esque ''you wont survive'' story) then blast out of the roof , i think thatd be epic.
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Mankey
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:54 pm

I've said it about 5 million times, and I'll say it again.

Alton NEED a heavily themed dark coaster to replace Black Hole. Even if its quite a bog standard and forceless coaster it would still be a lovely addition. You could easily fit a Mack Young Star in its place, or even just a standard Mack Sit Down, maybe even a Vekoma like X:NWO but something needs to go there! Its crying to be replaced! The queue is built, there is a tent, maybe if they wanted they could remove the tent and build a new one. But the fact is, there is a very large plot of land to build a ride that could possibly require close to nothing in terms of planning permission. On top of that, it's good because it conceals the noise!

Do people not realise that dark coasters are some of the best things out there? They take skill and imagination to design. This country doesn't really have a decent dark coaster anymore! :(

Replace it! NOW! :evil:
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Khanage
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:00 pm

Remember those rumours about an Intamin going into the tent? Hopefully these rumours will materialise into something. I can honestly see that a new coaster in the BH tent and a spruce up/retheme of X-Sector maybe next on the agenda for the park.

I'd like to hope so anyway. [-o<
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Mankey
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:02 pm

If we do see it getting replaced in such ways, I cant see anything going in there until 2012 at the earliest.

Seven years is a very long time for a ride to be SNBO! :( the current five years is enough as it is!
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BSwiss
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:04 pm

I'd like to see a ride with a similar-ish story to the rest of X-Sector but with heavy audio and visual input.

A quick idea would be something along the lines of getting in a train and moving into a room with lots of television screens all around you. A voice-over explains that they're monitoring heartbeat, perspiration and other forms of reaction to a number of visual stimulants on the screens. The voice should be overly calming to the point its creepily alarming.

After about 30 seconds of bizarre seemingly unconnected images on screen, the voice says something like "Congratulations, you have passed!" and the train hurtles off through the track with more sounds and images following the train.

The trains could also incorporate faux-heart monitor screens on board so it appears as if they're monitoring you.
 
Mick
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:24 pm

I like the idea of using linear accelerators more - they help Alton to come within noise and height regulations. You could have a kind of hybrid ride in the X-sector:

  • It starts of pretty tame looking - a modest hill followed by some bunny hops
  • It coasts smoothly into a long tent, where
  • It is suddenly accelerated out of sight up to about 70mph
  • Then dives down into a trench giving massive airtime, probably on a double dip
  • Before shooting back out of the trench out of sight in the trees
  • Maybe doing a couple of corkscrews, before
  • Returning into sight of X-sector, once it's calmed and looks tame again...

Trick unwary riders!
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CoasterCrazyChris
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Re: Alton Towers next thrill ride

Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:33 pm

Wish we could of had that tilting coaster that would of supposedly rushed off through the woods instead of thirteen, but oh well I can only dream of what might of been. :P
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