A wrote:

But if nemesis had not been installed, alton towers could have just turned into a camelot or drayton manor, nemesis put alton towers on the map, yes the corkscrew helped but nemesis is what turned alton into the no. 1 theme park in the uk

Personally, I think it's the reverse.

Corkscrew was revolutionary for the UK theme park market. It put AT on the map because parks like Drayton and Camelot never had a ride of the same standard at the time it was built. I guess Nemesis really reinforced this position due to its popularity and sheer coolness. If Nemesis had came first I'm sure it would have had the same effect, but the fact corkscrew came first at a time when we had nothing like that in the UK is what makes it so key. Plus, you've got to credit Tussauds and Merlin for the fantastic management over the years to help keep it leagues ahead of its rivals.

Though I do think they'll keep that nemesis statue by Sub-Terra and turn it into a monument.

I agree, not it terms of ride experience. But in terms of legacy and impact, corkscrew will always outshine nemesis.

americano wrote:

nemesis will get removed in the future because new technology is always being released. look at corkscrew..when that opened that was a big thing at the time but was removed as over time newer and better things were on the market...the same thing will happen with nemesis...over time they'll be something bigger and better designed to fill its place.

yes bigger and better rollercoasters will come but nemmys a classic and the big dipper is almost 90 years old at bpb so nemesis wont be going for  long time

Heisenberg96 wrote:

Personally, I think it's the reverse.

Corkscrew was revolutionary for the UK theme park market. It put AT on the map because parks like Drayton and Camelot never had a ride of the same standard at the time it was built. I guess Nemesis really reinforced this position due to its popularity and sheer coolness. If Nemesis had came first I'm sure it would have had the same effect, but the fact corkscrew came first at a time when we had nothing like that in the UK is what makes it so key. Plus, you've got to credit Tussauds and Merlin for the fantastic management over the years to help keep it leagues ahead of its rivals.

Though I do think they'll keep that nemesis statue by Sub-Terra and turn it into a monument.

No other parks in the uk had a ride that touched the standard of nemesis which is, by the way, 100 times greater than the corkscrew ever achieved

Nemesis is still the ride to beat,the corkscrew was a great ride but nemesis is in a different class.I do agree that the area around the ride needs a makeover.

Lee James wrote:

I'm not sure she will have a monument. Corkscrew gained this right as she changed the face of the theme park industry in the UK. Nemesis is fantastic and highly rated around the world, but I'm not sure she should warrant such an accolade.

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. Corkscrew kinda put AT on the map within the amusement park industry as this ride changed it from a run of the mill park, into one which was going to invest heavily in future rides (for their time). To add to this, my local park in Newcastle, Spanish City, also installed a carbon copy of the same ride, in the same year so hardly makes Corkscrew unique ?

However, Nemesis on the other hand, truly changed the face of the industry as it brought not only a new style of ride to Europe, but also brought over the top themeing, which was yet to been seen in the UK before. JW brought a taste of the american theme parks to the UK... Nemesis forced the competition to book up their ideas & surely by definition... Nemesis turned AT into a THEME park where as Corkscrew turned it into a AMUSEMENT park ?

clayj wrote:

Lee James wrote:

I'm not sure she will have a monument. Corkscrew gained this right as she changed the face of the theme park industry in the UK. Nemesis is fantastic and highly rated around the world, but I'm not sure she should warrant such an accolade.

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. Corkscrew kinda put AT on the map within the amusement park industry as this ride changed it from a run of the mill park, into one which was going to invest heavily in future rides (for their time). To add to this, my local park in Newcastle, Spanish City, also installed a carbon copy of the same ride, in the same year so hardly makes Corkscrew unique ?

However, Nemesis on the other hand, truly changed the face of the industry as it brought not only a new style of ride to Europe, but also brought over the top themeing, which was yet to been seen in the UK before. JW brought a taste of the american theme parks to the UK... Nemesis forced the competition to book up their ideas & surely by definition... Nemesis turned AT into a THEME park where as Corkscrew turned it into a AMUSEMENT park ?

Could not sum it up any better, nemmy stopped every theme park in the uk from becoming a camelot

I'm not disagreeing that nemesis is a phenomenal ride, I love her and I agree entirely that she placed Alton Towers on the map. But as for a monument, I don't think she will get a place alongside corkscrew because of the legacy corky gave the UK industry (points made previously).

Good discussion though 

Lee James wrote:

I'm not disagreeing that nemesis is a phenomenal ride, I love her and I agree entirely that she placed Alton Towers on the map. But as for a monument, I don't think she will get a place alongside corkscrew because of the legacy corky gave the UK industry (points made previously).

Good discussion though 

Personally in the next few decades (50years or more) whenever nemesis does go could we not see a duelling corkscrew/ zero G roll at the park entrance.... Corkscrew vs nemesis just a novel idea

A wrote:

No other parks in the uk had a ride that touched the standard of nemesis which is, by the way, 100 times greater than the corkscrew ever achieved

Well yes, I'm not saying that Nemesis isn't a significant ride. It was the biggest and best ride to ever be built in AT but you have to think about the time Corkscrew was built. Alton Towers didn't have anywhere near as much going for it pre-Corky, but once it had been built Alton Towers became a much richer and more desirable theme park as a result. Nemesis is a better ride, but you can't say it achieved lots more than Corkscrew, because it achieved the popularity and money to build Nemesis. Without it, I don't think we'd have anything near the theme park we do now, and quite possibly no Nemmy. Ok, so no other UK parks had a ride like Nemesis, but they didn't have one like Corkscrew either.

Heisenberg96 wrote:

Well yes, I'm not saying that Nemesis isn't a significant ride. It was the biggest and best ride to ever be built in AT but you have to think about the time Corkscrew was built. Alton Towers didn't have anywhere near as much going for it pre-Corky, but once it had been built Alton Towers became a much richer and more desirable theme park as a result. Nemesis is a better ride, but you can't say it achieved lots more than Corkscrew, because it achieved the popularity and money to build Nemesis. Without it, I don't think we'd have anything near the theme park we do now, and quite possibly no Nemmy. Ok, so no other UK parks had a ride like Nemesis, but they didn't have one like Corkscrew either.

But what if the park became greedy and decided to not to build nemesis? If that was the case then the park would quite possibly be facing bankruptcy, nemesis really kick started the uk theme park industry and forced competition. Without it we would not have ANY decent rides at BPPB and thorpe would be a small scale park. I doubt even flamingo land would be stocking up on their off the shelf coaster in order to compete. Without nemesis we would likely not have blivvy, air, collossos, inferno, the swarm, the big one, infusion, and even the likes of kumali, Mumbo jumbo and velocity.

Edit: yes no other parks did not have a double inverting coaster but the likes of camelot had the tower of terror which had one big ass loop and so was still competition enough for the corkscrew, the point is that there was NO competition for nemesis

what have I caused?! it was only a joke!!!

A wrote:

But what if the park became greedy and decided to not to build nemesis? If that was the case then the park would quite possibly be facing bankruptcy, nemesis really kick started the uk theme park industry and forced competition. Without it we would not have ANY decent rides at BPPB and thorpe would be a small scale park. I doubt even flamingo land would be stocking up on their off the shelf coaster in order to compete. Without nemesis we would likely not have blivvy, air, collossos, inferno, the swarm, the big one, infusion, and even the likes of kumali, Mumbo jumbo and velocity.

Edit: yes no other parks did not have a double inverting coaster but the likes of camelot had the tower of terror which had one big ass loop and so was still competition enough for the corkscrew, the point is that there was NO competition for nemesis

I think I'm being unclear. I'm not disagreeing with you on just how important Nemesis was, and I'm sure had Nemesis been built first it would have had the same effect as Corkscrew. As you say, if there was no Nemesis we wouldn't have had the likes of Air, but Nemmy might realistically never have been built without the funding gained from the revenue of Corkscrew. The Tower of Terror was the closest competition to Corkscrew but wasn't anywhere near the same level. Corky was something new for UK rollercoasters that put AT on the map, I'm sure fbit was flipped and Nemesis came fest it would have had the same impact but without Corkscrew, Alton Towers couldn't have funded Nemesis.

At least we'd still have Oblivion too

Heisenberg96 wrote:

I think I'm being unclear. I'm not disagreeing with you on just how important Nemesis was, and I'm sure had Nemesis been built first it would have had the same effect as Corkscrew. As you say, if there was no Nemesis we wouldn't have had the likes of Air, but Nemmy might realistically never have been built without the funding gained from the revenue of Corkscrew. The Tower of Terror was the closest competition to Corkscrew but wasn't anywhere near the same level. Corky was something new for UK rollercoasters that put AT on the map, I'm sure fbit was flipped and Nemesis came fest it would have had the same impact but without Corkscrew, Alton Towers couldn't have funded Nemesis.

At least we'd still have Oblivion too

Ok, you have a point, the corkscrew payed for nemesis. I still doubt it was any more important than tha though

If I am around on the day that it closes, I will be there... and probably weep silent tears

Hopefully it won't be deconstructed for another 20 years AT LEAST! x

Corkscrew was rented back in the early days of alton towers. When Némesis was built Tussards had established a business plan for the park. Previous owners ran the park into the ground. The park prior to the tussards group was on the verge of going under. Corky was saved by tussards and Némesis. Némesis established alton towers as the Uks no 1 theme park. Corkscrew raised the reputation of rollercoasters can do to a uk park. There legacies are both different. Némesis and oblivion have taken thrillserkers to new levels in the uk. The Smiler has given alton towers a new kick to the park. Némesis saved an industry in the uk the corkscrew couldnt save it. How long can nemmy go on for just look at the list of b&m coasters and see what there status is.

Krazycoaster wrote:

No, Sub-Terra's queue is completely new. The queue in discussion goes all the way up to the top near Nemesis' lift hill. I've only ever been up it once, you get some good views of the ride 

Im not sure that's correct, some of the old Nemesis queue was used for Dynamo and then Sub Terra.
I have drawn roughly where the queue went on this ariel photo from 1994 using my wonderful paint skills.

You can see just what an an awesome experience queueing for nemesis was in the early days.
I love it when they open up the remaining queueline on busy days, gives a great vantage point of the different elements and creates such a buzz.
Means you can get awesome shots like this when they had the DJ in the pit, hint hint Alton!

And another!

Best pics ever.

Wow..