UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
Coasteraddict
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Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:10 pm

Basically what changes would you make for next year, and what would you add/remover for the future?

Before we begin I'd get rid of this obsession with world firsts, all a ride has to be is either a) pure quality b) unusual to the uk/europe but not the first, as the brand is now big enough we don't need these gimmick, I also feel there's a severe lack of quantity at the park for the price, the numbeer of people, and the sheer size of the park

First off I would re-work 13, taking the trims off which ruin what would be quite a high class family ride, I would then proceed to take away a couple of the kicker wheels, whilst also adding trims to the bottom bit, as there's a bit of the ride on the incline going to the crypt where they could be placed. However this ride will get better either way as the trims will end up being worn down, the foliage will grow back which will give a greater sense of speed, and rides have a tendency to get better over the first 5 years IMO, but could be better.

I would give every area a bit of a clean up, especially FV, re-negotiating the sponsorship with fanta so we don't have to have those garish signs all over the place. Why they didn't just re-negotiate the coke deal which was already there IDK. I would then pro-cede to take the opportunity of actually theme air a bit, even if it's just taking the crap away, adding strobe arrow lights along the side of the walls, and maybe a bit of paint. IF it's in the plans to keep air as part of FV for the future then I would also have a river of blood below the lift that eventually diverges into the area of Nemesis' final turnaround. In the rapids tunnel I would also add some African paintings and what not as apparently it's supposed to be and African village (how IDK, not a fan of that area's lack of theming).

In terms of new attractions for next year, whilst we've already got the new dark ride in FV (major plus point, as the park needs more dark rides, especially if it's on par with hex or even better Valhalla (doubt it'll reach Darkastle or Spiderman levels)) However as a bare minimum alongside the headlining ride I would want something like a vekoma junior coaster (335m) to replace the beastie the 335 model might be a wee bit too big, so the 270m model would do just fine or a custom model that's a wee bit more compact. Theme it to Tails, after getting a larger sponsorship deal with Sega so the area becomes sonic land or somethin, as it's a happy family friendly theme, that'd be very easy to do, something they do diddly with right now. I would also like them to get a top scan in the area where we had the water balloon thing or whatever it was that was in a circle, as it's a joke that a major area doesn't have a support ride to help with the ques in the area, however the junior coaster is far more vital. However if Alton were TRULY out to please after a very disappointing year just nearing the close, they would fill the black hole tent with a family coaster. Something like a mini Eurosat would be perfect, as the central lift would gain maximum height, and the ride has excellent capacity, something which is a plus point. Also an interesting fact for you all is the fact that the diameter of the main bit of the tent is the same as the dome that hold Eurosat according to Google earth. I would then proceed to re-tent the tent with a more industrial looking surface, perhaps the story would be they're experimenting with space travel or something with space and have it looking like one of those tele-scope places that are domed. Personally I'd take the first idea with the junior coaster and thrilling flat for what I want to happen next year.

For SW7 I would begin by removing Rita. Lets be fair, even after the re-theme it still looks out of place, dominates the area, and in no way shape or form helps the park. I would send the ride to Chessington, as it would give them a cheep thrill to fill the 1.4m category, whilst also allowing them to actually think and push the ride to its fullest potential. I would also give CWOA the kick up the but it needs as it would massively help attendances=moreprofit=ability to get more funds from Merlin. Then for SW7 I would have a Cheetah Hunt esque ride with the multiple launches starting with the station sort of half in the area of katanga canyon and half on the dirt coach car park, launch cutting the area into going into the forest, interacting with the flume, coming back out into the mini lake, another launch mini overbank over the first bit of the ride with timing so it interacts with each other, then making it's way towards the larger part of the coach parking where it continues to mauruade a bit eventually back to the station. The orange would be ride entrance the red is where I'd lower the fence and have more theming and stuff like african huts. All in all we're all winners, we fix dark forest allowing us to properly plan the next ride(s) for the area, we get a quality launched coaster, and Chessington fills a gap in their lineup.

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I will add more later, but I am tired, and have wrote quite a bit. I look forwards to seeing everone's opinions :D
 
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Sam
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:37 pm

My main task next year would be to give the Flume's ride system a complete refurbishment with a relining and a modern control system, as well as new state-of-the-art boats and station. And then I'd give it a pirate based re-theme! It's a water ride in a pirate area. It's the obvious step forwards.
 
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:43 pm

Refurb The Edge arcade, bring back Nemmy Nosh. But, that ones unlikely.
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Blaze

Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:45 pm

Almost don't know where to start. So I'll start with a question. Who's going to pay for all this?

From the top, Thirteen NEEDS the trims. they were put in because the ride was over-speeding and throwing the drop mechanism out, and allegedly would pull too many negative-Gs for younger riders. Similarly, the kickers can't be removed, they need to be there and removing them wouldn't change anything apart from save them a couple of quid on power.

I think you mean X-Sector RE Fanta, but whatever, as for Air, it's supposed to be as far from Nemesis as possible in terms of theming. If they ever do get round to putting in the theming they planned to before the money dried up, they'd do it like they planned, and have it as a peacefull oasis, without any blood or anything like that, and all the better for it. It doesn't suit blood.

Katanga unthemed? What?!

We're getting a pretty major dark ride and you're demanding two new coasters and a Top Scan? Really? And the only coaster that will fit in the tent is a Jet Star 2, as that is what it was designed to hold. Anything else is pushing it.

Remove Rita? When will people learn that it's a permanant ride and not some throwaway attraction designed to fill a space for five years? Doesn't help the park? It's incredibly popular, and dominating the area is a good thing, why you'd want a thrill ride to hide in the corner I don't know. Yes, it does intrude too much, but there's no where else for a coaster to go in that area, so there's no point arguing about replacing it. It's far to big and intense for Chessington, especially as Merlin intends it to be a strictly family park to keep it seperate from Thorpe.

Your idea for a new launch coaster? My rough guestimate of the price is around about £50 million if you include landscaping the carpark, re-locating the lost space and re-routing access to it, adding the infrastructure into Katanga and the sheer scale of the ride itself, which would never pass planning aplication anyway.

Myself, I think the best thing to do for SW7 is some kind of old-school B&M sit-down or a wing-rider where the Air car park is. After that, use the Black Hole site for a new indoor family-thrill coaster like they suggested at the Thirteen event. In general I'd like to see them continuing to go round the park refreshing areas one-by-one, steadily improving the park by replacing tired areas and touching up ones that are still good enough but looking out of shape, like X-Sector. Hex needs fixing properly over this winter also.
 
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:18 am

Also, I even think your post is very ambitious for the next couple of years, Coasteraddict.
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Coasteraddict
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:03 am

"Blaze" wrote:
Almost don't know where to start. So I'll start with a question. Who's going to pay for all this? Merlin Entertainments make nigh on a billion in terms of revenue, and about 200-300m profit. It's about time they spent some quality money on the towers. Also if they truly believe that they're second only to Disney they a)need to spend more to stay there b) how if other parks can spend 40-50m euros per ride, like Efteling for example have just spent 40m on an arena and a convention center. Plus the cost of their recent wooden racers which were 12m, the flying dutchman 20m in 2007 ravelejn 30m their new pandoras box thing or whatever in 2014 is rumoured to be 40-50m, if they can afford all that then Alton with roughly a million less visitors per year, backed by a massive multinational corporation can afford attractions reaching the 25m mark.

From the top, Thirteen NEEDS the trims. they were put in because the ride was over-speeding and throwing the drop mechanism out, and allegedly would pull too many negative-Gs for younger riders. Similarly, the kickers can't be removed, they need to be there and removing them wouldn't change anything apart from save them a couple of quid on power. Didn't know that, I thought it was because the speed messed up the kickers or something. Then the simple solution is at the end add a helix, and don't say theme parks don't edit their rides, The Ultimate and a more drastic change was steel phantom to phantoms revenge.

I think you mean X-Sector RE Fanta, but whatever, as for Air, it's supposed to be as far from Nemesis as possible in terms of theming. If they ever do get round to putting in the theming they planned to before the money dried up, they'd do it like they planned, and have it as a peacefull oasis, without any blood or anything like that, and all the better for it. It doesn't suit blood. but surely there has to be some progression of change from the post apocalyptic theme to the oasis theme.

Katanga unthemed? What?! Well what is there? there's a couple of buildings decently themed, the structure of the minetrain, some waterfalls, a bland game stall thing, a bland tunnel, and a bland rapids station and route. Never said unthemed, just could be themed a lot more.

We're getting a pretty major dark ride and you're demanding two new coasters and a Top Scan? Really? And the only coaster that will fit in the tent is a Jet Star 2, as that is what it was designed to hold. Anything else is pushing it. No I'm saying either a junior coaster that's off the shelf (or a custom if they're a wee bit too big, but that won't add massive ammounts onto the price which I'd be surprised if it exceeded 2m let alone 1.5m and a top scan to be placed in Dark forrest as the area lacks a flat, and the whole park only has 3 quality flats, 2 are old decrepid family flats (enterprise and blade) and then ripsaw. We need another flat. OR a smaller version of Eurosat from Mack which would fit very well into the tent as the one in Germany is 80ft tall yet the dome containing the ride is the same as the main bit of the tent. Image This would only happen if the dark ride is like 5-6m and mack don't offer a collosal price (5m max). However I've already said to go for the first option. Please remember, we had nothing last year, and the park is lacking multiple ride types for multiple people. Ques are only ever going to get to acceptable levels with new rides.

Remove Rita? When will people learn that it's a permanant ride and not some throwaway attraction designed to fill a space for five years? Doesn't help the park? It's incredibly popular, and dominating the area is a good thing, why you'd want a thrill ride to hide in the corner I don't know. Yes, it does intrude too much, but there's no where else for a coaster to go in that area, so there's no point arguing about replacing it. It's far to big and intense for Chessington, especially as Merlin intends it to be a strictly family park to keep it seperate from Thorpe. So what about all the permanent rides the six flags chain moves around their parks? If it was so popular why did it come 4/5th in that poll ;) There's actually a platue that stays at around the same height near the figure 8 bit that is 100m*100m. Chessington is trying to be a family park, family parks need a little bit of everything, as what if there's a family of 5 one of the kids is just getting to the point where he wants to try thorpe park level stuff, Vampire isn't exactly the greatest ride for him to make the step between. It's not that big nor fast so not too intimidating for those sort of people, and allows the core of the parks fanbase something to cheer about.

Your idea for a new launch coaster? My rough guestimate of the price is around about £50 million if you include landscaping the carpark, re-locating the lost space and re-routing access to it, adding the infrastructure into Katanga and the sheer scale of the ride itself, which would never pass planning aplication anyway. Cheetah hunt is a low lying coaster if you ignore the tree formation, I doubt it'd be that much, perhaps pusing the budget a bit, but no more than 30m like I said before Alton needs to splash the cash more.

Myself, I think the best thing to do for SW7 is some kind of old-school B&M sit-down or a wing-rider where the Air car park is. After that, use the Black Hole site for a new indoor family-thrill coaster like they suggested at the Thirteen event. In general I'd like to see them continuing to go round the park refreshing areas one-by-one, steadily improving the park by replacing tired areas and touching up ones that are still good enough but looking out of shape, like X-Sector. Hex needs fixing properly over this winter also. I can agree with this, though I'm still unsure about Air carpark being the best place.


My replies are in red.

^Surely the park needs to be ambitious?
 
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:32 am

Chessie needs QUALITY rides, not crap... I certainly wouldn't cheer about Rita coming to Chessie, especially as it WOULD NOT FIT THE DEMOGRAPHIC OF THE PARK! Chessie is bad enough atm it doesn't need unwanted cast-offs from other parks... Besides, where would it go? What would it be themed to? etc...


Elsewhere, whilst Phantom's Revenge was retracked to a very different way, it was needed, as the ride was seen as too intense and what-not... In addition, it was only half the ride that got redone, in a place where planning permission isn't as big a deal as Thirteen's location... So even just adding an extra helix could easily be declined... Besides, it's not needed, the ride is actually fine as is shockingly enough...

Just because Merlin earn money, doesn't mean they can spend it ALL... Running costs for ALL of their attractions are required, and each one has to basically go to them asking for backing for new ideas/rides... Problems aren't just solved by throwing money at it... Disney are a juggernaught for one, and Efteling are a non-profit organisation, so using those two as examples isn't looking at the full story...

Whilst the park does need some flat rides, the elephant in the room will always be Black Hole's tent until it gets used... It would need a properly customised ride layout to fit the current tent... OR personally I would just start again... Perhaps have some Motion Simulators or some other form of dark ride to help support a re-invigorated area...

Blaze is right about the uber costs a Cheetah Hunt ride would be like... Removing trees in Towers isn't simple... If it were, we'd be riding a giant wooden coaster into the valley, Thirteen might be a lot more extensive, and god knows what else...
However, we're stuck with restrictions, and of course, all the stuff that gets removed, needs to be replaced... Where's all that going to go?


There's being ambitious, and there's the being over the top... Merlin keeps investing even though it's in debt, isn't that enough? Can't just wave a wand and fix everything, in the long run, everything needs to be considered...


For me, let's get a handful of flats in (4 maybe 5 at a push), both thrill and family, replace the useless ones in X-Sector, get a new dark ride in the Black Hole tent, redo Adventure/Storybook land with a new kid's coaster and show, retheme and revamp the Flume to fit it into Mutiny Bay, and of course finally, have SW7 somewhere, perhaps Gloomy Wood?
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:37 am

I'd prefer the Flume site for SW7, then SW8 is the Air Car Park.

They wouldn't have SW7 in Gloomy Wood, think of the tree removal.
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:41 am

"Stelios7" wrote:
I'd prefer the Flume site for SW7, then SW8 is the Air Car Park.

They wouldn't have SW7 in Gloomy Wood, think of the tree removal.


Surely trees will have to be removed in the Flume area though? I doubt a B&M/Intamin will be following the exact same route as it...
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:46 am

^ I see your point, But, not as much as Gloomy.
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:32 pm

"Coasteraddict" wrote:
So what about all the permanent rides the six flags chain moves around their parks? If it was so popular why did it come 4/5th in that poll ;)


Six Flags has the money, and is a big enough brand, to move rides from one park to the next if they so wish. Merlin do the same thing from time to time, though it's never a major attraction IE a rather big roller coaster.

Rita probably didn't do so well with the poll because most of the people who voted can be assumed to be the more enthusiastic fans of Alton Towers. The general public rarely care about online polls that much. But just go to the park on any given day, and you can be guaranteed that Rita will have a big queue. It's definitely one of the most popular rides, and to say otherwise is rather ignorant.
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Blaze

Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:47 pm

Also, when Six Flags move rides, they move things like SLCs and the standard B&M designs. Rita is an off-the-shelf design, but because of Alton's landscape, it's structure had to be designed to make it fit at Alton. It wouldn't fit in Chessington unless they made the piece of land they were building it on an exact match for Dark Forest, or invested in a totally new support structure, which wouldn't come cheap. And it did come near the bottom of the poll, but look at the rides which beat it. ;)

Merlin do make a lot of money, but they are a) in debt and b) have a lot of attractions to look after, not just Alton. If they threw £30m at Alton in one year, they'd have to throw a similar amount at other properties.

Alton have a development plan taking them up to 2019. So far one of the coaster sites has been used and one of the so-called 'opportunity areas' is the site of next years attraction, so it's reasonable to assume that for the most part they'll be sticking closely to that. The Flume site isn't marked for a coaster, but at the same time, Ug Land wasn't shown to be up for retheming, so what's likely to happen is they'll build around about the same number of rides as they said they would, which worked out to be one medium or large per year with several smaller ones as well, plus a large increase to the resort in the second half of the plan.
 
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:33 pm

I visited AT in September and I was disturbed to see that so many years ater the decommissioning of the Black Hole, the tent is still there and taking up valuable space in a premium spot in the park. Perhaps they should think about removing it. I really think that a thorough clean up of the park should be a routine part of the winter closed season, they can afford to repaint and freshen up bits where the theming is starting to look tatty and worn, for example the grafffiti all over the park and the tatty concrete tunnel under the lift hill for AIR. I am keen to see how they are going to develop bits of the park for the future and hope that 2012 and 2013 will bring in some much needed new rides.
 
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:55 pm

^^^Hense the :wink:

Since it's hard to predict (impossible actually) what new things and technologies will come out, using current tech these are the rides I would install, and potential places.

First of in X-sector I would sell Submission, it's not popular and often you only ever find people who haven't been to the park before on it, raising funds to bring in a HUSS booster. Could easily be themed to a space experiment (like those spinny arm things that do g's but a bit different), put it more in the corner and perhaps a little bit more into the supports of blivvy. For those who haven't seen it it's like a breakdancer, but it flips <3 it doesn't have the worse capacity either with HUSS stating 900 pph pov/offride vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZmG0c1tf_g
Then put in a mini Eurosat in the tent, a family coaster with a spiral lift in the center of the ride. X-sectore would be finished for quite a while then, just keep up the area with TLC. Entreprise will have to go on life support XD.

On to Dark Forrest:
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As I said earlier I would like Rita to be removed from the park and sent elsewhere (I said chessington, but Gardaland is also and option, or if they eventually buy FL there too, as it's too big for legoland, and Heide and Thorpe have their accelerators) and from the box made by path in google earth you can see there is actually a lot of space to be used, as all that stays at an elevation of about 186, that's a 100m*100m box right there. What I'd put there? Well either a Wingrider ala raptor style or something similar but a wee bit better than Daemonen at Tivoli Gardens. Personally like the idea of Raptor more. The Blue circle is where I'd put a top scan, however a screaming swing wouldn't be the worse idea either, as it's family friendly (1.2m restrictions) the trees around that area are some of the tallest in the park, and there's room behind for the clearage needed, however the park might have to order a slightly smaller one as the dynamic ride height might be a wee bit too much. The red circle is potential for a new dark ride, however looking back now I have completely forgotten the sky ride XD which will scuppore any dark ride there :( could still get a good spinning ride there that's family friendly as the turn around is about 23m in diameter. This would also allow the park to re-do 13's queline as it's a bit ridiculous to start queing so far away from the ride, I would move the enterance to next to the turn around have it zigzagin a couple of times there then move on into the other part in the trees. I would also build a proper shop in style of the crypt.

Coaster corner: Recently been marked as a possible coaster site, which I think would be very good if the area was more middle ground (ala families) as it links up a more thrill orientated area with a kiddie area, the space there is also massive, about 140m equilateral Triangle shaped area. One idea would be to have a tower similar to the one there built and then something like Fluch Von Novgorod to be built there, the whole area would be themed to castle stuff like the dragon coaster at Legoland. Perhaps have another kiddie coaster in this area to tie in with CCL. Perhaps room for another dark ride too? Perhaps a large one?

Gloomy wood:
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The larger area shaded in Blue would be the woody we've been begging for for years, similar to Joris en de Draak at Efteling. The other area could perhaps be a vekoma suspended ride similar to Kvasten at Grona Lund. Either way Gloomy wood needs something else to keep people in the area, as lots just walk on by towards FV.

Forbiddeny Valley:

The only thing I can think of here is if they do end up using the Air carpark, incorporating air into the new area therefore leaving Forbidden Valley as Nemesis the dark ride, Ripsaw and Blade is to put a Intamin Zac-spin in the other end of the pit that blade resides in, as it's unique, good advertising prospects in the UK, and wouldn't think they're the most expesive, small footprint too. Throughput isn't the greatest though, but with the amount of ride's we'll have by then, wouldn't be as big of a problem.

Air+Carpark:

The only way I think they could do this is if they completely re-do airs queline allowing a path to be built through it, whilst also having a new enterance at the end of the Cafe in FV. Then I'd perhaps have a woodie that's like Boulder dash, perhaps multiple lift hills that follows the woodland walk path, a coaster in the other area, and perhaps a dark ride? It would be difficult to get the area properly.

The Valley:

For the parks 50th birthday I feel that the park should really push to be able to build in the valley, as it would finish the park off IMO, linking up Forbidden Valley and Dark Forrest. Could also entice people to walk through the gardens more to get to the area. One of the coasters I'd have would be similar to Mountain Flyer at Knight Valley which looks awesome Image http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG_WdFTcSHI

Right I'm just gonna post now as I'm fed up of typing XD.
 
Blaze

Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:24 pm

Rita won't be going anywhere for 15 years minimum. Sorry. That yellow box includes too many trees, and the locals don't like them building there. Thirteen had enough problems, it's unlikely they'll be allowed to build there again, let alone so soon or so big. With the red circle, you're forgetting one pretty major thing. Thirteen. The circle is pretty close, if not on top of it. Plus there's access to it, which would be pretty hard, annd again, getting it passed.

Coaster Corner is accessed through CCL, so it would have to be a family-orientated area, no thrill rides. There's no room for a tower or a Flusch, and the area closed because of noise problems, a big ride like that will make a bit of a racket.

They'll have trouble with building at the lake, and Gloomy Wood doesn't need a new attraction. It's too small to hold one and is only there to hold Duel, it's not supposed to be a full area like Dark Forest or X-Sector.

Not sure if there's room for a ZacSpin. In fact I'm pretty sure. I doubt there's room for a full new area by the Air car park coaster unless it's the 'active link'. Again, you're being overly ambitous with all these woodies and dark rides, there's just not enough room and the regulations and locals won't be pleased.
 
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:54 pm

The first thing Alton should be sorting out is the empty Black Hole tent and the rest of X-Sector...

I still can't believe that despite all the wonderful new developments the park has built since the Black Holes closure 6 years ago, they still neglect the most dilapidated area of the park....
 
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:58 pm

"Blaze" wrote:

Coaster Corner is accessed through CCL,



Not necessarily.

A new entrance could be created if they opened a path up from between the Towers and X-Sector.

:)
 
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:22 pm

"Blaze" wrote:
Rita won't be going anywhere for 15 years minimum. Sorry. That yellow box includes too many trees, and the locals don't like them building there. Thirteen had enough problems, it's unlikely they'll be allowed to build there again, let alone so soon or so big. With the red circle, you're forgetting one pretty major thing. Thirteen. The circle is pretty close, if not on top of it. Plus there's access to it, which would be pretty hard, annd again, getting it passed. Pretty sure that spot of land is in the GDO are, and you'd access it via the gap that'd be created when they removed the station of Rita, either way the area needs a flat, and there's room for 2 if either way (water balloon area and ug swingers site) Perhaps the water balloon site could be a dark ride, however you'd have to go into the trees, and it's a waste to have one there as the trees are among the highest at the park in Dark Forrest (why they don't secretly plant larger growing trees everywhere, or at least at the edges IDK)

Coaster Corner is accessed through CCL, so it would have to be a family-orientated area, no thrill rides. There's no room for a tower or a Flusch, and the area closed because of noise problems, a big ride like that will make a bit of a racket. No as you'd logically make the area accessable from both CCL and X-sector, to avoid bottlenecks, but you'd have the main entrance X-sector side, to try and keep CCL more secluded (and traffic problems with Dark forest also near CCL. The area is a equilateral triangle of about 140m, Fluch is a L shaped ride with dimensions of about 140m*100m, with small widths. The plan would be to have the indoor bit like a castle wall, same style as the tower already there, and flaunt is as an extra bit of the house, thus achieving planning permission, and allowing larger rides inside the area (if the wall were to be above tree height, but I doubt it. The racket was from old rickety rides, modern rides are a lot quieter, and it's only like having another Dark forest.

They'll have trouble with building at the lake, and Gloomy Wood doesn't need a new attraction. It's too small to hold one and is only there to hold Duel, it's not supposed to be a full area like Dark Forest or X-Sector. Too small? so what there's massive amount of land surrounding that could be expanded into, TBH I'd much rather the broomstick coaster happened rather than Rita. and who says it's not supposed to be a full area? No reason not to TBH as many just walk on by, needs something else to keep people there.

Not sure if there's room for a ZacSpin. In fact I'm pretty sure. I doubt there's room for a full new area by the Air car park coaster unless it's the 'active link'. Again, you're being overly ambitous with all these woodies and dark rides, there's just not enough room and the regulations and locals won't be pleased. Zac spins, or at least the larger models are no larger than 30m long by 10 wide if that. ok it'd be a wee bit of a sqeeze, but who's to say we can't alter the paths and bury the ride slightly and have a path going through the ride, we could even move the blade if need be, would help if I knew the cleerance needed by the rides. The air carpark is at max 220m long max, though the bulk is 125 and it's by 140m, for perspective the main part of FV (nemmy blade ripsaw) is about 140m*140m and some rides could go into the surrounding woods, and there's plenty of room, the park is about 1km by 800m in comparison IOA is 600m X 600m with a lake in the middle at about 100m X 200m and they have multiple, very large dark rides.


Replies once again in red.

Instead of my usual crap, just gonna list what rides I want at AT:

Top Scan: pretty solid thrill flat, considering we only have the one, and it's falling to bits. Somewhere is Dark Forrest.

HUSS Booster: Again thrilling flat, it's like a breakdance but crazier and it flips <3 Replacement for Submission

S&S Junior Swing: Boosts the junior line up, good for families, either somewhere in storyland/old mcdonalds or if space is available CCL.

S&S Screaming swing: Would probably have to get a slightly smaller, custom one at like 55ft, but it's a good family flat, something we need. No idea where it could go :(

TOPPLE TOWER!: Great family flat, however needs a relatively large area of space, no idea again, perhaps behind the station of the rapids?

Eurosat for the tent: Quality ride, would easily be able to be adapted to the tent, adds a family ride

Vekoma Junior coaster: Replacement for Beastie, much higher quality than beastie too.

Family looper: Unsure what manufacturer to go for, Intamin are an option as they use 2 across trains, which allow for smaller rides (all ways feel the B&M trains are too big unless we perform massive diggin, and either way I'm a fan of 2 across), as we've been lacking a starter looper since corky left, and it'd give us a really good balance IMO. Gertslauer are an option, but I don't think they could get the capacity one of the star family rides should have. I like Fluch Von Novgorod though, and believe it to have slightly higher throuput.

Vekoma Suspended+Swinging: Basically the trains (seats) on Kvasten at Grona Lund are gorgeous, an would like them modified to be swinging, would be an excelent family ride IMO.

Wild Mouse: Let's be fair, they're quality rides if done right, you only have to look at PBB to see that they have the potential to be top 10 coasters, also are fairly compact so could go anywhere, not too tall either. Crazy mine and Rattlesnake show that when themed properly they are good rides.

2/3 More dark rides, one in Dark forest to help flush out the area a bit more hopefully, perhaps one behind spinball? one in the valley (I would try and get a valley area for Altons 50th birthday, the locals might be a wee bit more lenient that year, hopefully) and perhaps one in coaster corner.

A racing woody in Gloomy woods forests and onto the lake (building on lakes isn't hard and has been done before, just depends on whether or not it's protected ffs :( )

A woody like Mountain Flyer in the valley.

Perhaps an out and back with multiple lift hills with a touch of boulder dash from the air carpark?

Failing the two above perhaps something like Twister at Grona Lund?

Intamin Zac Spin

Would finish the park IMO.
 
Blaze

Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:32 pm

How do you 'secretly plant' a large tree? I don't think you appreciate the strict control and scrutiny the land AT owns is under. That area is not in the GDO, otherwise Thirteen would have been built without a fuss from the locals.

They can't just do whatever they want by making it look old. If they had to remove the 'Don't look down' voice from Oblivion becaus eof riders' screams, they won't get away with a major coaster like that. I'm not convinced you could access Coaster Corner direct from X-Sector because of Oblivion, the access road and stuff, unless tey wrappred the parth around the towers.

If Alton wanted it to be a full area, it would have been made as one, but the woodland is protected and the ground isn't exactly flat round there, so it would be difficult to build on it, let alone get permission. Another ride there would be nice, but their options are rather limited.

What's the point of a kids version and a full version of the same flat if the full version os going to be made smaller?

PBBs Wildmouse was built in the 50s when H&S let people get away with that. Do you think that kind of ride would be allowed today? The world moved on from those rides a long time ago. Alton want to be changing the future, not revisiting the past.

Simply, that's all too much, they'd never afford it and there wouldn't be enough room without turning the park into a themed verion of Mandyland. They should focus on getting the most out of a comfortable number of rides and not try to just build every kind of ride imaginable.
 
Coasteraddict
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Re: Changes, and thoughts for the future.

Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:52 pm

"Blaze" wrote:
How do you 'secretly plant' a large tree? I don't think you appreciate the strict control and scrutiny the land AT owns is under. That area is not in the GDO, otherwise Thirteen would have been built without a fuss from the locals. Actually it's only the bit that goes into the woods not in the GDO, however the turnaround for rita into the station still might be in GDO. And I do, but I also think people overstate them on here.

They can't just do whatever they want by making it look old. If they had to remove the 'Don't look down' voice from Oblivion becaus eof riders' screams, they won't get away with a major coaster like that. I'm not convinced you could access Coaster Corner direct from X-Sector because of Oblivion, the access road and stuff, unless tey wrappred the parth around the towers. Look old? No I said build it in the same style as the tower in the corner of the CC, thus to blend in, potentially allowing planning permision for a larger than tree height ride, due to it blending in with what's already there. Why is Oblivion being mentioned?, it was one couple complaining, and people still scream when tipped over the edge. The pathing would be a problem, but one easily solved, as there's already a parth that half wraps around the towers, and there could be one linked through x-sector behind the games stall

If Alton wanted it to be a full area, it would have been made as one, but the woodland is protected and the ground isn't exactly flat round there, so it would be difficult to build on it, let alone get permission. Another ride there would be nice, but their options are rather limited. It's not really hilly around the lake, only a couple of meters variation. Didn't know the woodland is protected

What's the point of a kids version and a full version of the same flat if the full version os going to be made smaller? only a couple of feet (i.e. from 62-55ft) as the swing height is a wee bit too high for the trees around the park.

PBBs Wildmouse was built in the 50s when H&S let people get away with that. Do you think that kind of ride would be allowed today? The world moved on from those rides a long time ago. Alton want to be changing the future, not revisiting the past. Explain why there are wild mice still being installed? The Maurer mice are fairly intense, ok not a patch on PBB's but still intense. Just because people are overlooking them for other rides, doesn't mean that they can't make a comeback, they're a compact ride type, that offer good thrills for families. If you are leader of a market, and you're having a lower investment year do you go for risky technology, or tried and tested technology strengthening your position for when you go for more prototype esque technology for lots of money? Answer is obvious. All I'm saying is don't disregard the coaster type, you're constantly complaining about lack of space (which it's only really lack of height to be worried about, but even then wild mice fit the bill) yet scoff at a proven compact coaster.

Simply, that's all too much, they'd never afford it and there wouldn't be enough room without turning the park into a themed verion of Mandyland. They should focus on getting the most out of a comfortable number of rides and not try to just build every kind of ride imaginable. Obviously it'd be over time like any park does when building up their ride library, however most of the rides aren't overly excessive in price, so could be done in 30 years, which would finally pull the park up to the level that more established parks have in terms of ride count, helping to push Merlins hope of making Alton a must do when considering staying over for multiple days, as there'd be too much to do. There is plenty of land available, and so what if rides are slightly overlapping or close together?


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