UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
Coasteraddict
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:06 pm

TBH I was really surprised when i first saw the plans for 13 that they didn't try to get it in the Gloomy wood, as the theme fitted that are much better that having to re-theme everything, and it would have worked better considering it's supposed to be the step up ride from RMT and Spinball to Nemesis and co. It would also have left us with the corkscrew, meaning the park would be more balance considering what they want the park to be and would also keep the step up looper in the park that, IMO, every park needs.

As it is the best we can hope for is something like the Broomstick coaster, sadly I think this area is quite far down the 'things to do list'

The idea of Dark Forrest was so dumb :(
 
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:23 pm

i agree with coasteraddict..  They really should of put Thirteen in that area!  Would of been Perfect!!!!
 
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:26 pm

Coasteraddict wrote:
TBH I was really surprised when i first saw the plans for 13 that they didn't try to get it in the Gloomy wood, as the theme fitted that are much better that having to re-theme everything, and it would have worked better considering it's supposed to be the step up ride from RMT and Spinball to Nemesis and co. It would also have left us with the corkscrew, meaning the park would be more balance considering what they want the park to be and would also keep the step up looper in the park that, IMO, every park needs.

As it is the best we can hope for is something like the Broomstick coaster, sadly I think this area is quite far down the 'things to do list'

The idea of Dark Forrest was so dumb :(

As much as I hate to burst your bubble, but Th13teen would never have been built in Gloomy Wood. It was designed for the Dark Forest (Ug Land) area specifically. Corky, as much as it was loved, was thirty years old, and needed to move on in order for Alton to continue its image as a leading park. Th13teen was always designed as Corky's replacement, and that is why it was built there and winds sympathetically through the woods.

The Gloomy Wood area does not have the space large enough for a ride such as Th13teen, which requires a large show building for the main ride element. Had they built a ride in Gloomy Wood (which they won't) instead, then Corky would have left by now and there would now have been a huge gap up in old Ug Land!

The Broomsticks coaster was a fake plan anyway, was never going to happen - and a ride like that never will in my opinion. The area is fine as it is. The Haunted House/Duel is meant to be an abandoned place, away from anything else - and the area is meant to be a secluded and hidden wood which gives people something to do between Mutiny Bay and Forbidden Valley. The area does not need to change.

There are much, much, MUCH higher priorities in the park.
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:15 am

Duel's popularity is decreasing year-by-year and it's sad to see it's more-or-less walk on every time I visit. Something either needs to be done to Duel or something needs doing to Gloomy Woods, otherwise it will only get worse. I enjoy Duel but it doesn't look like very many other people that visit Alton Towers (ignoring TTF'ers :P ) do. :/
 
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The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:26 am

If a new ride is built by duel, duel itself will get more popular. It's out of the way, people just walk past it to get to nemesis etc. I love duel but it needs some TLC and a new ride close by
 
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The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:46 am

Duel will never be a busy ride... It's a throughput munching machine! It would take an absolutely ridiculous queue to make them need to use the extended queue... Simply because it devours throughput like anything!

A new ride in Gloomy Wood wouldn't bring any more attention to Duel. The ride isn't 'out of the way' either. If Duel is 'out of the way' then Nemesis and Air must be practically in findable!


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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:07 am

It may have a good throughput, but you only have to sit outside at the Waffles and Ices stand and you notice that hardly anyone ever bothers to go in.
 
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The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:13 am

Really? Cos whenever I walk past I am forever hearing at least one or two people comment on it being 'that really cool laser shooty thing'


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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:26 am

Afraid so. There was a poll not long ago that asked which ride was the most overlooked and Duel was one of, if not the most voted for. :/
 
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:52 pm

mrbrightside wrote:
As much as I hate to burst your bubble, but Th13teen would never have been built in Gloomy Wood. It was designed for the Dark Forest (Ug Land) area specifically. Corky, as much as it was loved, was thirty years old, and needed to move on in order for Alton to continue its image as a leading park. Th13teen was always designed as Corky's replacement, and that is why it was built there and winds sympathetically through the woods.

The Gloomy Wood area does not have the space large enough for a ride such as Th13teen, which requires a large show building for the main ride element. Had they built a ride in Gloomy Wood (which they won't) instead, then Corky would have left by now and there would now have been a huge gap up in old Ug Land!

The Broomsticks coaster was a fake plan anyway, was never going to happen - and a ride like that never will in my opinion. The area is fine as it is. The Haunted House/Duel is meant to be an abandoned place, away from anything else - and the area is meant to be a secluded and hidden wood which gives people something to do between Mutiny Bay and Forbidden Valley. The area does not need to change.

There are much, much, MUCH higher priorities in the park.


Now I don't mean they exact same ride, but the same idea should have been build in Gloomy Wood. Don't know why you thought that I expected it to be the same....

So what if Corky was 30 years old? The rev and Steeple are both 3 and 5 years older, yet they're still going fine. Cedar Point, one of the most advanced parks in the world still has its own oldy looper that's 36 years old. Then we get onto Disney, the very thing Merlin aspires to they still have a 33 year old ride and a 53 year old ride in its original park. I'm sorry but I could keep looking proving you wrong but that's a **** reason. All it needed was a good bit of TLC which included a re-theme. Stupid point.

Dude, there's loads of land in Gloomy wood. The available land is a good 150m long and 80m wide in an l shape (or you could say it's a 150m box with a 70m box taken out) Having said this you COULD build upon the lake and into the woodland containing the flume, giving even more space. Who's to say the corky would have left if it got a referb? Rubbish point again.

I know it was fake, doesn't stop me wishing it wasn't and had been built. Just because the area is supposed to be away from everything else, doesn't mean that it should only have one thing in it. You could still have an abandoned  chapel or barn or other house.

No I don't think there is. All we need is:
  • Flume Refurb and re-theme, not a big job
    Overall park TLC
    X-sector which is being sorted
    Air theme
    And the mess that is adventure land
    DF flats
4 things that could have been covered last year in the low investment year and this year with medium investment. The other I'd do as a two year project from 2015/2016 So they can invest heavily into it and make it a brilliant family area. Gloomy wood needs something else, it's stupid to just have one thing in an area.
 
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:35 pm

Now, I'm all for healthy debate, but when people start using swears or calling others opinions "stupid" or "rubbish" - it gets a bit personal. I never got personal when discussing your opinions...

coasteraddict wrote:
Now I don't mean they exact same ride, but the same idea should have been build in Gloomy Wood. Don't know why you thought that I expected it to be the same....
That would be when you said "I was really surprised when i first saw the plans for 13 that they didn't try to get it in the Gloomy wood" - using the word "it" led me to believe that you were referring to Th13teen itself. Not a similar ride, but the actual ride we ended up getting.

Coasteraddict wrote:
So what if Corky was 30 years old? The rev and Steeple are both 3 and 5 years older, yet they're still going fine. Cedar Point, one of the most advanced parks in the world still has its own oldy looper that's 36 years old. Then we get onto Disney, the very thing Merlin aspires to they still have a 33 year old ride and a 53 year old ride in its original park.
You can quote all the older rides in the world at me if you wish, but that doesn't mean that Corky has a special reason for staying. It was clear that it was getting very bad, and would have taken a lot of work to get it back up to scratch - more than just a lick of paint. The fact that Flamingo Land have also recently de-constructed theirs shows that the ride type could not have lasted much longer without serious renovation (something not worth it considering the age of the ride and the way coasters have moved on). Just because Disney own old rides doesn't mean Corky should have been kept. Corky had been neglected for years, Disney renovate their rides extensively and frequently.

Coasteraddict wrote:
I'm sorry but I could keep looking proving you wrong but that's a ice-cream reason. All it needed was a good bit of TLC which included a re-theme. Stupid point.
So just because you can quote me a load of old rides means that my opinion is a "stupid point" and a "sh*t reason"? I don't think so somehow.

Coasteraddict wrote:
Dude, there's loads of land in Gloomy wood. The available land is a good 150m long and 80m wide in an l shape (or you could say it's a 150m box with a 70m box taken out) Having said this you COULD build upon the lake and into the woodland containing the flume, giving even more space.
Yes, there is space. I have never said that there is not. I have stated that there are protected trees down there though which makes construction difficult. Also, removing any trees planted purposefully for Gloomy Wood would defeat the object of it being a wood in the first place. It is a sensitive area and would be difficult and expensive to build within. Harder than it was to get Th13teen permission - which wasn't easy anyway.

Coasteraddict wrote:
Who's to say the corky would have left if it got a referb? Rubbish point again.
Again, why call my argument "rubbish" - it makes the discussion personal and unfair. I could ask you a rhetorical question back though; "Who's to say corky would have got a refurb if they had not have removed it?"

Coasteraddict wrote:
I know it was fake, doesn't stop me wishing it wasn't and had been built. Just because the area is supposed to be away from everything else, doesn't mean that it should only have one thing in it. You could still have an abandoned  chapel or barn or other house.
It would detract, in my opinion, from the feel of the area. It's meant to be a secluded and hidden hideaway which gives a diversion between Mutiny Bay and Forbidden Valley. It's what Wardley planned it to be, and it's what it has stayed as. Plus, the area has bedded in and grown in a specific way which works due to the trees and so on.

Coasteraddict wrote:
No I don't think there is. All we need is:
Flume Refurb and re-theme, not a big job
Overall park TLC
X-sector which is being sorted
Air theme
And the mess that is adventure land
DF flats
You still listed 6 things which come above Gloomy Wood. Quite a few considering you don't think there are much more important things to do...

Coasteraddict wrote:
4 things that could have been covered last year in the low investment year and this year with medium investment. The other I'd do as a two year project from 2015/2016 So they can invest heavily into it and make it a brilliant family area.
A low investment year would not have covered a lot of those things. Neither would this year have covered most of them to be honest! The flume needs more than a simple refurb. It either needs a very, very extensive and expensive renovation or it needs replacing. The park TLC is not a simple thing to fix as there are many touches  all over the place that need seeing to. X-Sector, I agree, will hopefully be complete with SW7. Air will be unlikely to get a theme now, it's been how it is for too long, a shame I know. Adventure Land will get sorted I am sure, but I agree, it needs a lot of work. Dark Forest needs completing with a flat too, I agree.

All of the above are far more important than Gloomy Wood though.

Coasteraddict wrote:
Gloomy wood needs something else, it's stupid to just have one thing in an area.
Gloomy Wood doesn't really. All the areas you mentioned above are things that need fixed or changed. Gloomy Wood doesn't suffer from any problems right now. All the thought that it "needs" something else is just wishful thinking. It doesn't physically need anything else. It's not like it needs something to soak up queues or attract visitors to the area. Like I said before, it was designed as a stop-gap between FV and MB and that is what it does well. It isn't "stupid" to just have one thing in an area - and technically it doesn't, as the Haunted Hollow can be classed as an attraction (tenuous link I know).

I know we have totally different opinions, but I could not leave your post without replying. Particularly when you called my opinions "stupid", "rubbish" and "sh*t"! I'd like to think that the above shows that a polite debate can be had.
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:17 am

Many older rides, Like Steeplechase and Revolution at Blackpool, The Arrow Corkscrews at parks like Valleyfair! and the most overrated park on earth Cedar Point, and Matterhorn at Disneyland were design to be built in that specific park and were able to last for long. Where as Alton's Corkie is just a Off the shelf Vekoma Corkscrew that was designed for travelling. I do miss it, but it really need to go, It was old.

As For Gloomy Wood, it's fine how it is, A small flat would be nice to go along with Duel, But that's all I can think of. As mrbrightside mentioned, There are other areas that are greater need of attention such as the Flume

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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:01 am

If they can't get a new ride for that area then they could at the very least spend some time on Duel, getting all of the effects and timings correct.
 
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:55 pm

id love it to undergo another extensive refurb and become a haunted dark ride it once was with a touch of fantasy.

no lazers.
 
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:51 pm

I understand they needed a replacement for Corkscrew, I just wish it wasnt themed how it is. Theres something not right about having two areas with essentially the same theme, maybe I'm just being abit 'OCD' about it but it seems pretty sloppy to me.

It just feels like Duel and Thirteen should be in the same area, but I guess it's done now and Thirteen isn't going anywhere for a long time. If you could transfer Duel to the Dark Forest that would be great, but that's not gonna happen. I hope they have a plan because at the moment it seems like they're just kinda winging it and the park is lacking cohesion in places (See Air, The Flume, Rita).

I'm aware I'm going against the grain here; don't get me wrong, I really like Duel and Gloomy Wood, and I would have much prefered Thirteen to have been put there (although I'm not sure it would have been possible either, certainly not in its current form) but maybe it's time for them to do something else with the area and make a Duel replacement in the Dark Forest?
Last edited by Ryan. on Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:34 pm

mrbrightside wrote:
Now, I'm all for healthy debate, but when people start using swears or calling others opinions "stupid" or "rubbish" - it gets a bit personal. I never got personal when discussing your opinions...

Yeah I'm sorry. Wasn't the smartest things to do.

coasteraddict wrote:
Now I don't mean they exact same ride, but the same idea should have been build in Gloomy Wood. Don't know why you thought that I expected it to be the same....
That would be when you said "I was really surprised when i first saw the plans for 13 that they didn't try to get it in the Gloomy wood" - using the word "it" led me to believe that you were referring to Th13teen itself. Not a similar ride, but the actual ride we ended up getting.

Fair enough, though I did mean for it to be different with the same concept.

You can quote all the older rides in the world at me if you wish, but that doesn't mean that Corky has a special reason for staying. It was clear that it was getting very bad, and would have taken a lot of work to get it back up to scratch - more than just a lick of paint. The fact that Flamingo Land have also recently de-constructed theirs shows that the ride type could not have lasted much longer without serious renovation (something not worth it considering the age of the ride and the way coasters have moved on). Just because Disney own old rides doesn't mean Corky should have been kept. Corky had been neglected for years, Disney renovate their rides extensively and frequently.

Of course there's a special reason for Corky to stay, it put Alton on the map and is the best 'starter looper' out there as it's not exactly imposing, had great throughput and they wouldn't have had to buy a new starter looper, like Alton currently do, as it's one of the bigger gaps in the their line up. Did it need some work? Of course, but it wasn't in that dire straights and if parks like the Pleasure beach, Holiday Park and Cedar Point can maintain their rides to good standards, why on earth can't Alton? Not exactly the sign of a world leading park if they can't even look after their own rides, especially their (arguably) most iconic ride.

Yes, there is space. I have never said that there is not. I have stated that there are protected trees down there though which makes construction difficult. Also, removing any trees planted purposefully for Gloomy Wood would defeat the object of it being a wood in the first place. It is a sensitive area and would be difficult and expensive to build within. Harder than it was to get Th13teen permission - which wasn't easy anyway.

Not if it was hidden away behind the trees like the broomstick coaster would have been (had the plans been real) Everywhere is sensitive to build upon in Alton. You don't know if it would have been harder as the gloomy wood sight has the advantage of being a further 500 meters away from the village, so noise concerns would have been less.

Again, why call my argument "rubbish" - it makes the discussion personal and unfair. I could ask you a rhetorical question back though; "Who's to say corky would have got a refurb if they had not have removed it?"

Again sorry for rubbishing your argument. There isn't, but the argument is they should have located 13 in Gloomy Wood and then gone on to spend some money renovating the ride last year, as if you hadn't forgotton they did NOTHING last year.

It would detract, in my opinion, from the feel of the area. It's meant to be a secluded and hidden hideaway which gives a diversion between Mutiny Bay and Forbidden Valley. It's what Wardley planned it to be, and it's what it has stayed as. Plus, the area has bedded in and grown in a specific way which works due to the trees and so on.

Just because there's another attraction there doesn't mean that it would be any less of a secluded hidden hideaway place. The area needs more pulling power, as very few people actually stop there and the waltz on further towards Nemesis or Katanga Canyon (depending on the direction they are going).

Coasteraddict wrote:
No I don't think there is. All we need is:
Flume Refurb and re-theme, not a big job
Overall park TLC
X-sector which is being sorted
Air theme
And the mess that is adventure land
DF flats
You still listed 6 things which come above Gloomy Wood. Quite a few considering you don't think there are much more important things to do...

Whilst it does seem a lot two of the things are very minor, one being something that should be done extensively every year, the other being air which, IMO only needs some sort of metallic looking planes with lights in the tunnel (raised slightly on the floor so we don't have to look at the pools of scum on the floor) and a fountain created following from the top of the lift hill to the point where the ride lifts up into the Fly-to-lie with a pool at the bottom and same again where you go from lie-to-fly under the pathway to greatly enhance the experience and ride. 

A low investment year would not have covered a lot of those things. Neither would this year have covered most of them to be honest! The flume needs more than a simple refurb. It either needs a very, very extensive and expensive renovation or it needs replacing. The park TLC is not a simple thing to fix as there are many touches  all over the place that need seeing to. X-Sector, I agree, will hopefully be complete with SW7. Air will be unlikely to get a theme now, it's been how it is for too long, a shame I know. Adventure Land will get sorted I am sure, but I agree, it needs a lot of work. Dark Forest needs completing with a flat too, I agree.

I agree about air, sadly, however there is light in sight if they do decide to built upon the air carpark for 2016. The DF flat wouldn't be a large investment at all especially if they just went with one of either of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PifqlutH ... r_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y8dtK4k ... r_embedded
themed to a tree would be perfect IMO.
The TLC should be happening every year, and the Flume re-theme plus DF Flat bit air work could easily be covered this year let alone this year and the year before.


All of the above are far more important than Gloomy Wood though.

Whilst Important I'd say only X-sector and Adventure land are massively more important, the other things I'd say were on par.

Gloomy Wood doesn't really. All the areas you mentioned above are things that need fixed or changed. Gloomy Wood doesn't suffer from any problems right now. All the thought that it "needs" something else is just wishful thinking. It doesn't physically need anything else. It's not like it needs something to soak up queues or attract visitors to the area. Like I said before, it was designed as a stop-gap between FV and MB and that is what it does well. It isn't "stupid" to just have one thing in an area - and technically it doesn't, as the Haunted Hollow can be classed as an attraction (tenuous link I know).

Whilst it IS a stop gap, and does ok(ish) at it, if you were to watch very very few people stop in the area. Which is why Gloomy wood is suffering, as Duel isn't attracting the numbers it should, which is why it's one of the only major rides that never gets a que (alright it does have fantastic throughput, but regardless I've never seen the ride with anything more than a 2/3 minute wait)

I know we have totally different opinions, but I could not leave your post without replying. Particularly when you called my opinions "stupid", "rubbish" and "sh*t"! I'd like to think that the above shows that a polite debate can be had.

Again I'm sorry for rubbishing you opinions.


My replies are in red.
 
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:58 pm

With the dungeons at London maybe moving and not all the stuff moving with it vengeance would fit in gloomy wood and not take up much space Very nicely
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:08 am

I have thought for some time the Gloomy wood area has been in need of a good flat/thrill ride.
it is the perfect location to add a heavily themed ride to revitalise and expand on the creepy theme.
This area and dark forest both need updating and expanding, dark forest totally lacks flow and interest for me.
 
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:17 am

At the far end of the toilets there is a path that goes under the monorail track. Behind the fence there is a large open space which I think is just wasteland and a bit of storage.  That would be an excellent place to expand gloomy wood with a new ride.

I also believe there is lots of space at the gloomy wood end of the haunted hollow.  Enough room to get a ride, maybe a flat of some kind down there. There is also still unused space behind the musical grave stones, as the railway line used to go further up towards FV.

Still think the broomstick coaster was the best idea though, would have been perfect if they got a small coaster of some type around that lake.
 
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Re: The Future of Gloomy Wood- Upgrades Ideas

Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:34 pm

There isn't much room behind the toilets really, you could maybe squeeze a ride in between Duel and the Monorail sidings although the Duel building would be completely exposed.

http://www.google.com/maps?q=Alton+Towe ... Gates&z=18

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