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Tonka_UK
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:35 pm

Couldn't they just work on the foundations then? Nemesis absolutely definitely can not go! It changed Alton Towers dramatically and is the only coaster with a full scale loop.. one of the best rides there in my opinion! Let's hope if it does go a similar rollercoaster is built maybe even on a grander scale.
 
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:00 pm

"mats""][quote=""Tonka_UK" wrote:
Submission should go purely on the basis of it being a ball crushing leg wrecking bore.


Agreed.

Now don't shoot me down for what you're about to read. :roll:
We were on park again today talking to one of our sources who told us about Nemesis' foundation issues. Another source (reliable) told us earlier this year that 2010 will be the last season for Nemesis due to the foundation problems, but I remain somewhat sceptical about it, as I'm sure most other people here do! Either way we've finally written an article on it. :)[/quote]

But Nemesis has been up for around 16 years now, if there were real worries surely it would have been closed by now? And besides, it's Alton Tower's defining ride, highly doubt they'd get rid of it.
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James6
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:02 pm

Alton would do anything within there power to keep the ride running if it ever came to that, and I'm sure it'd be more evident if it was being closed this year.

If it was going I'm sure it would have been announced, the park knows how much it's fanboys love Nemesis and would certainly warn us of it's closure, I would bet against it not happening.
Last edited by James6 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mats
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:02 pm

I agree entirely Tonka! Apparantly, they're being reinforced each year and that process is said to be finate.
We agree with all you're about to say, which is why I remain sceptical until something is announced publicly.
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Blaze

Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:37 pm

Can I ask who your sources were?

If there was any structural damage that warranted removal, the ride would be closed immediately. If the foundations were falling apart, the ride would have to close as soon as they found out. Nemesis has it's foundations and supports re-done routinely to keep it secure, and if you look at it from an engineering point of view, it is actually very secure, it is no less safe than any other ride at the park, it's just that a number of supports and foundations are in such a possition that they wear faster than normal, so need replacing more often, which is why all these rumours come around every 5 bloody minutes. Pretty much every ride will have part of it's structure replaced or repaired, so it is not unusual and it is not a sign that Nemesis' days are numbered. Until the park make it official, I refuse to believe any of these rumours until the ride is at least 20-25 years old. Corkscrew was a ride designed for small and travelling parks. It was designed by Vekoma in the late 70's based on an even older design by Arrow. It lasted 28 years, could have been longer but for it's unpopularity and the park wanting a new ride to celebrate 30 years. Nemesis was built for Alton by B&M in the 90s. It was bespoke and made by even then onw of the biggest companies in the industry. It was built to last and it will as long as it remains popular and capable of thrilling riders.

Case closed.
 
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mats
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:53 pm

Hey Blaze

Yup, I agree with what you say there entirely if I'm honest, which is why I've not bothered to cover it until now. Three sources from the park, one at management level who we've known for some time. Who's to say it's not some twisted PR thing descended from senior management, or a case of Chinese whispers? It probably is.
I remain pretty much the same as stated, unless something is announced officially I'll assume it's not going anywhere, but the "what if" niggle in the back of my mind won't go away.
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Zylos
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:57 am

I can see Submission going, it's uncomfortable and I dont think it's too popular.
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spike1911
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:39 pm

As long as Nemesis is kept in repair and sections replaced when required, no reason it couldn't last at least another 20 years and probably will be only replaced due to new technology rather than it falling apart. The Corkscrew at Flamingo land still works lovely although a bit shakey.
 
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haydn!
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:07 pm

Nemesis biggest physical weakness has always been it's biggest emotional strength. It's design, location and the way it interacts with the ground.

Alton Tower's corkscrew and the one at Flamingo land are built on flat land so it's not a fair comparison.

Nemesis is built into the ground in a way that puts an amazing amount of stress on it's supports. It's been said countless times that Nemesis is tearing it's self apart but never to the extent that has ever warranted closure - but substantial ground works have been carried out in recent years with a number of the footers already having been strengthened or replaced.

It is only a matter of time before Alton Towers say enough is enough, but with Nemesis still being the parks most popular and signature attraction after all this time, my guess is they'll continue to invest in structural remedies for the foreseeable future.
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:13 pm

If nemesis was going to have to go, I can imagine Alton just rebuild the whole layout... add a bit more theming (don't know where!) and label it as Nemesis: The revenge! It makes more sense, and even though it'll have to be closed for a year, the fanatics will be kept quite because they know it's coming back!

But I think it's going to be a long time before it goes!
Last edited by fredward on Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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kingda dude
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:16 pm

If and only if Nemesis is scrapped due to stress problems with the supports then I hope they replace it with an equally amazing roller coaster. They should use B&M again but not do another Inverted since the GP will not know the difference, but instead make a Floorless or sit-down. It should use the same valleys, but the supports should be located in positions to minimise stress and sheering.

The ride that replaces Nemesis should be called Nemesis Revenge (or Nemesis II) and continue the story saying that the monster broke free and a new system of restraining it was developed.

I would be upset though if it is removed. Hopefully nothing large needs replacing; because if there is then that will be the nail in the coffin for nemmy. :cry:

I feel that all the flat rides in X sector and FV should be removed and replaced with the following:
Enterprise - Fly away (Huss, like Enterprise but riders are in a Flying position, it has a better throughput)
Submission - Top scan (they are good rides and I really want Alton towers to have one
Blade - Frisbee (Huss, It would look better than blade and the space will only need minor changes to accommodate it, it is also no taller than the existing frame so it is even better)
Ripsaw - Suspended top spin (Husses latest Top spin model, this is a floorless version with riders facing back to back, it should have the same theming as Ripsaw)
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Nightfall
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:21 pm

If the rumours about Nemesis are true then the best ride to compare it to would be Egles fortress. It offers a similar experience to Nemesis with fast turns on sloping ground.

Last year EF was taken out of use and was recently announced to be awaiting removal. The reason behind this was the supports having to be constantly repaired and restructured to keep the ride standing. I even remember hearing that several supports had to be re-placed every year.

This ride is two years older than Nemesis and designed by Arrow. Being a suspended coaster the forces are harder to control and considering Arrows past design history it's surprising the ride lasted as long as it did.

However the really crucial difference is that Eagles Fortress was very visibly under constant repairs. It ranks as one of the top 10 rides (normally just above Nemesis) and the park have been making every attempt to keep it going.
If Nemesis was in such a bad state and this was its last season then I would expect to see much the same treatment that EF has been getting and it would be common knowledge that the ride is reaching the end of its life.
Remember that the pit was dug for nemesis so the supports are in those positions by the designers’ choice and not just because they couldn’t find anywhere else to put them.

So Nemesis might very well be having trouble with its structural state. However this is unlikely anywhere near bad enough to warrant its removal.
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Jared
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:33 pm

What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is who the manufacturer of this ride are. B&M are extreme perfectionists, with both design, maintenance and build quality. They never half arse rides like Arrow did, and like a few other companies have done. They do things right the first time.

If Nemesis is in a position where they feel that it is getting too difficult to re-enforce footings, then they can remove those support sections, and track sections, and get B&M to replace those supports using new footers in different places. You need to remember, it's not unusual for steel coasters to have sections of track replaced or supports modified. Look at Maverick and Fluch Von Novgorod as prime examples of this. Sure they are both newer rides, but it's proof that these things can be modified if required and I'm sure it's something that the park will look into.

Things can be done to help keep this ride running, and I have faith in the guys at Alton Towers Resort that they'll take the most viable and best solution possible. Nemesis is a ride that helped to put the park on the map, and thanks to that ride it is one of the best theme parks in the world. Alton Towers will be analysing it all from many different perspectives. Nemesis is a ride that draws riders and visitors to the park from all over the world, removing it would be marketing suicide and would severely damage the parks reputation among not only the enthusiasts, but the general public.
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Blaze

Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:04 pm

"mats" wrote:
Hey Blaze

Yup, I agree with what you say there entirely if I'm honest, which is why I've not bothered to cover it until now. Three sources from the park, one at management level who we've known for some time. Who's to say it's not some twisted PR thing descended from senior management, or a case of Chinese whispers? It probably is.
I remain pretty much the same as stated, unless something is announced officially I'll assume it's not going anywhere, but the "what if" niggle in the back of my mind won't go away.


Alton staff are famous for saying things like that, and anyway, I've trained myself to be impervious to these rumours :P
"CCJared" wrote:
What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is who the manufacturer of this ride are. B&M are extreme perfectionists, with both design, maintenance and build quality. They never half arse rides like Arrow did, and like a few other companies have done. They do things right the first time.


Arrow wern't half-arsed. They were just naturally hopeless :lol: Ron Toomer suffered motion sickness so could never ride coasters, so he didn't understand really how to design them.

With Nemesis being so popular and so highly regarded, they would just replace bits, the cost of doing so would be recovered compared to scrapping it. If they did that, visitor numbers would go through the floor, so the cost of keeping it open would be recovered.

Compared to Eagle's Fortress, Nemesis will last much longer. The manufacturer is better (and still around), Alton Towers' maintainance is excelent and the ride is increddibly popular around the world, so the park would do anything and everything in their power to keep it going.

When the time does come, however, I want something as innovative as Nemesis was. It was one of the very first inverts, so something equally as radical is needed, and it will need to be as forcefull and mad as Nemesis.
 
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Vik
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What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:42 pm

To be fair the exact same rumour about Nemesis being removed at the end of the season because of the supports/foundations etc comes around every year. So far Nemesis has always re-opened the following season. I can't see this time being any different.


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Badgy
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:23 pm

If you think about it, then it becomes fairly logical that Nemesis will be with us for a while yet.

Problems with the foundations, which will be checked regularly, would have been identified a few years ago, and a medium term plan put in place. A plan such as, ok we got 10 years left on nemesis before the cost to repair becomes prohibitive.

If this was the case, then the problem still has a few years left before maturity or else AT would not have invested £12m in Th13rteen at the expense of closing without any replacement what is probably ATs biggest consitent customer draw.

If the problem has only surfaced in the past year or 2 and is so serious, then it would warrant immediete closure.

Therefore, if a problem exists (which may well be the case), I conclude that it will only mature in the next 5-10 years, when nemsis will already be 20 years old and coming into its old age.

So I guess that in the near future a phone call will be made which will go something like :- "hi john, we got a problem with nemesis which means we're going to have to remove it within 5 years, we're gonna need something spectacular to put in that ruddy great hole you dug 20 years ago mate, here is £20m to play with."

My thoughts anyway
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El Patricko
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:00 am

Nemesis is flawlessly heartlined just like the fresh faced B&Ms of today therefore the steel is in the same situation it would be on a carpark coaster.

Yep if anything it's the footers rather than the steels but its no big issue.

If it got to the stage where as nemesis needed to be closed mid season i suspect they would get the guys in to re-set the whole footer system in phases.

Nemesis will be around for a long time yet that's for certian.

But im going to nominate blade for retirement :)
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kingda dude
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:47 am

I think that the two rides that are almost certainly going to go are:
Enterprise
Blade

The ones that could go, but probably not this season are:
The Flume
Ripsaw

The reason for Enterprise is that it is old and it is scheduled for replacement in the ten year plan.
The reason for blade is that it is old and doesn't attract many people, and there are many other rides the park can get (like a Frisbee) which are better, can fit in the same space and attract more people to the park.

Then for the possible ones:
The reason for the flume, it is old and should be replaced, its grotty in parts, there are loads of patches on the channel, and there is a whole load of better rides you can put in that area.
Finally Ripsaw, this I feel is a very good ride and I would hate to see it removed. The problem is that running stressful ride sequences have taken a toll on the ride and is now not anywhere near as good as other Newer Top spins.
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:38 pm

I think after yesterdays speech by John Warldey, we can safely put to bed the rumour that Nemesis is going at end of the season. It isn't going anywhere for a very long time.

No doubt the same rumour will come back again next year as it does every year, but for now at least we can all sleep easy tonight. :P
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Re: What will they take away from the park in the next 5 years?

Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:42 pm

"Vik" wrote:
It isn't going anywhere for a very long time.P


Yeah he did say "your grandchildren will ride it" to a 10 year old... that made me happy!

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