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JoshM

Religious Beliefs

Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:03 pm

After the success of the Political Beliefs topic I thought a Religious Beliefs topic was in order.

I understand that religion can be a very touchy subject, so please don't attack peoples beliefs if they differ from your own, but please do debate. But in the end, it's really up to the moderates if a post is deemed to be attacking another persons beliefs, so please respect everyone.

So, let me kick this topic off.

I'm an atheist, I refuse to believe in something which hasn't got sufficient proof to deem its existence, a book is not enough proof for me to worship or follow a certain religion. Don't get me wrong, the Bible and many other religious books give good advice on how life should be lived and I appreciate the bible for sending out good messages and teachings. But believing in a God because a book says of its existence is rubbish, it's like saying The Three Little Pigs are real because there's a book about.

I'm still young, and I guess i've got a lot to learn, but that's just my opinion, and I highly doubt it'll change any time soon.

Let the discussion begin...
Last edited by JoshM on Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Poison Tom 96

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:10 pm

Hey good topic idea. Thanks for saying mine was a success :D

Anyway i am an atheist. i have no reason to believe in an eternal being etc. Science is what i believe

The Bible is a book as pointed out, not necessarily factual and quite possibly irrelevant to modern life
Last edited by Poison Tom 96 on Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Blaze

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:23 pm

Ah, this topic is back. :D

Atheist/antitheist.

While I have nothing against anyone who believes in any religion (as long as they stay out of my way, if you're preaching on my street, knocking on my door or saying I'm going to hell, then frankly, you're in trouble), I think the religions themselves are stupid, to be frank. I hate them all equally, they're all inaccurate, intolerant, irrelevant and unpleasant.

I do not for one second consider the bible to be a 'good book' with 'valuable lessons', unless stoning unruly children is good advice and enjoy being told it's ok to go into the next village, kill everyone and keep the virgins, or being given precise instructions on the do's and don't's of owning slaves.

There is zero evidence of any god or anything supernatural, so I refuse to believe it, and I'm glad. I know some people wish they could believe, but I'm glad there's no reason to and no evidence to.

Although of course, if you want to believe, that's fine, but I care about what I believe and I think everyone should.
 
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Cariba
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:29 pm

Blaze wrote:
Ah, this topic is back. :D

Atheist/antitheist.

While I have nothing against anyone who believes in any religion (as long as they stay out of my way, if you're preaching on my street, knocking on my door or saying I'm going to hell, then frankly, you're in trouble), I think the religions themselves are stupid, to be frank. I hate them all equally, they're all inaccurate, intolerant, irrelevant and unpleasant.

I do not for one second consider the bible to be a 'good book' with 'valuable lessons', unless stoning unruly children is good advice and enjoy being told it's ok to go into the next village, kill everyone and keep the virgins, or being given precise instructions on the do's and don't's of owning slaves.

There is zero evidence of any god or anything supernatural, so I refuse to believe it, and I'm glad. I know some people wish they could believe, but I'm glad there's no reason to and no evidence to.

Although of course, if you want to believe, that's fine, but I care about what I believe and I think everyone should.


Completely with you on this, I personally find it rather amusing and surprising that people will put faith in a book, but not in a proven scientific experiment. I am whole heartedly "a man of science", and have no time for religion.
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:45 pm

Empirical evidence ftw! :D

Yeah, I like Science. I enjoy thinking about things rather than just making stuff up because I can't be bothered to put some logical thought into things.

As I've stated before, the Bible is like Wikipedia. Pretty much all of it is complete :censored: ! :lol:
(that's a joke, in case you didn't notice ;) )
 
Blaze

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:06 pm

In the words of comedian Andrew O'Neill, grow up, we've got science now.

It's as simple as that really. Religion was fine before we knew how the world worked, but now we know so much about our universe, our world and ourselves, there's just no need for god any more, we've outgrown it like we've outgrown living in caves, stoning people and throwing our poo at the window onto the street.
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:19 pm

I'll come straight out with it, I'm a Jehovah's Witness. I honestly am. I respect everyone's opinion on anything religious as everyone's entitled to a opinion.

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:09 am

ryanyoxall wrote:
I'll come straight out with it, I'm a Jehovah's Witness. I honestly am. I respect everyone's opinion on anything religious as everyone's entitled to a opinion.

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.


I have no issue with most JWs - my only issue is they way they seem to be the only faith that regularly goes round door-to-door....surely that usually only helps put people off faith?!

Personally, I'd say I'm agnostic at the moment - used to be a Christian but over the last year or so I've been having issues with some of the wording in the Bible.
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Blaze

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:08 pm

ryanyoxall wrote:
I'll come straight out with it, I'm a Jehovah's Witness. I honestly am. I respect everyone's opinion on anything religious as everyone's entitled to a opinion.

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.

OK, why am I constantly woken up at weekends by JWs trying to proselytise me and leaving leaflets in my door about how the end of the world is nigh?

Not being funny, I genuinely want to know why no other religions do this so, well, religiously, if you pardon the pun.
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:27 pm

Well the reason we preach is because in Matthew 24:14 it say, 'preach the good news of the kingdom to all the inhabbited earth' . And we don't believe that th end of the earth is nigh, we believe that all evil will be wiped off the earth. And what we do by preaching is that we are trying to save people like yourself from being destroyed at Armegedon, which we think is coming soon.
 
Blaze

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:36 pm

Well the ones who came last week clearly stated the world will soon be ending, and I guess God is running late, because it's been a core tenant of the religion since 1914. ;)

They also quoted scripture that 'justifies' why it's ending now, but it could apply to any time in history. Sadly I threw out the stuff they gave me because I'd be interested to see how you interpret it and generally get a bit more of an insight into the religion.

Isn't there also a passage (can't remember which one right now) that also says not to preach?

I know you genuinely believe Armageddon is coming, and wanting to save people is all well and good, but waking them up at 7 on a Sunday morning isn't going to win any fans .:P
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:08 pm

The only reason that some people call that early is because that's the only time they can preach, and personally if I'm out early and. One across a house with curtains drawn I will leave it to do later so to not disturb anyone sleeping.

As to the passage I have never heard of it, If you can find the scripture then I will ty to answer as well as I can.

As to the stuff they gave you, were they caled watchtower and awake? If so the awake is an interesting read and is not all about religion.
 
Blaze

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:17 pm

I can't remember who it was, but it was pretty much all about religion, about how the bible, and in particular their interpretation, is actually true. Said that because the Earth is a sphere then they're right about everything because two lines from the book suggest that (missing the one about standing on top of a mountain and seeing the whole world). Also said science points to the origin on the universe falling in like with theology, but didn't go any way to show how, what with the universe being 14 billion years old, our place in everything being totally insignificant and the great bit of Genesis that says light was made before the thing that makes it.

I'm a bit sketchy, so I'll try and remember where that one about preaching is from and be more specific about the one in this post.

As this topic is about religious belief, why is it that you belong to the religion, and why do you believe it? I assume you where born into it?
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:25 pm

ryanyoxall wrote:
The only reason that some people call that early is because that's the only time they can preach, and personally if I'm out early and. One across a house with curtains drawn I will leave it to do later so to not disturb anyone sleeping.

As to the passage I have never heard of it, If you can find the scripture then I will ty to answer as well as I can.

As to the stuff they gave you, were they caled watchtower and awake? If so the awake is an interesting read and is not all about religion.


You didn't answer my main criticism: "my only issue is they way they seem to be the only faith that regularly goes round door-to-door....surely that usually only helps put people off faith?!"

I strongly believe this practice does your religion more harm than good.
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Simon

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:25 pm

I used to be a confirmed Anglican churchgoing Christian.  In my first year at Uni, I was a member of the Christian Union.

I'd now consider myself an atheist.  I thought long and hard about the universe and came to the conclusion that the Abrahamic conception of God is unsustainable in the face of cold hard logic.

Nevertheless, the kind of firebrand anti-theism expressed by the likes of Dawkins and our very own Blaze here is something that annoys me just as much as being told that I'm an infidel, or apostate and going to hell. It has the sharp smack of superiority about it, and I don't like it.  "Grow up, we've got science now" is just as hackles-raising to me as "God-hating losers like you are going to burn in Hell."

No matter how much you like science, it doesn't have all the answers, and as long as there are mysteries to ponder, I don't think we should be down on anyone for trying to fill the big black yonder with something that gives them comfort, or helps them understand the universe, or their place within it.  Some may come to it through the medium of science and apply their scientific understanding to make educated guesses: that's fine, I do a bit of that; others might look to ancient knowledge that has been passed down through human history for something that they feel links them and their forebears to the future and the unknowable.  One thing in all of our lives is pretty certain, and that is that by the end of it, there will still be lots we don't know.  It's not childish to feel a bit scared by that.

As I say, I'm an atheist.  But I haven't stopped asking questions, and I hope the day never comes when I do stop asking.  I'd say I have some religious beliefs, but I don't believe in God.  Maybe I'll have a bit more time later to explain what I mean by that more fully.
 
Blaze

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:36 pm

Simon wrote:
I used to be a confirmed Anglican churchgoing Christian.  In my first year at Uni, I was a member of the Christian Union.

I'd now consider myself an atheist.  I thought long and hard about the universe and came to the conclusion that the Abrahamic conception of God is unsustainable in the face of cold hard logic.

Nevertheless, the kind of firebrand anti-theism expressed by the likes of Dawkins and our very own Blaze here is something that annoys me just as much as being told that I'm an infidel, or apostate and going to hell. It has the sharp smack of superiority about it, and I don't like it.  "Grow up, we've got science now" is just as hackles-raising to me as "God-hating losers like you are going to burn in Hell."

No matter how much you like science, it doesn't have all the answers, and as long as there are mysteries to ponder, I don't think we should be down on anyone for trying to fill the big black yonder with something that gives them comfort, or helps them understand the universe, or their place within it.  Some may come to it through the medium of science and apply their scientific understanding to make educated guesses: that's fine, I do a bit of that; others might look to ancient knowledge that has been passed down through human history for something that they feel links them and their forebears to the future and the unknowable.  One thing in all of our lives is pretty certain, and that is that by the end of it, there will still be lots we don't know.  It's not childish to feel a bit scared by that.

As I say, I'm an atheist.  But I haven't stopped asking questions, and I hope the day never comes when I do stop asking.  I'd say I have some religious beliefs, but I don't believe in God.  Maybe I'll have a bit more time later to explain what I mean by that more fully.

What? No wonder the anti-science movements are growing again if being accurate and realistic is seen as a bad thing. It's anti-intellectual post-modernism nonsense. There's the truth, and then there isn't. How is it just as bad to say "there is no god, and that's good, because religions lead to trouble so should be kept private" as it is to say "You don't believe what I do, you're going to suffer for eternity."

Of course there's still lots we don't know. But that's why we have science. To find out what we don't know. It's not acceptable to just say "I don't know, therefore 'deity x, y or z' did it". We used to know nothing, then we investigated and learnt more. We didn't know what the sun was so we worshipped that. We realised that was silly so stopped. We now know enough about the universe to know that no religion, at least none that I know of, even come close to being right.
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:44 pm

Yes blaze I was born into it and the reason believe it is because it answers nearly all questions about how we got here and how the earth got into the state it's in now.

And mike I respect your opinion, but the preaching is the way we get people into our religion and thousands of people join each year around the world because of it. And the preaching work is the reason that we have go 7 million active witnesses.

And the reason that we are the only religion that goes out regularly is because we follow the all the bible while other Christian faiths pick and choose parts on what to believe and what not to.
 
Simon

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:57 pm

Blaze wrote:
What? No wonder the anti-science movements are growing again if being accurate and realistic is seen as a bad thing. It's anti-intellectual post-modernism nonsense. There's the truth, and then there isn't. How is it just as bad to say "there is no god, and that's good, because religions lead to trouble so should be kept private" as it is to say "You don't believe what I do, you're going to suffer for eternity."


I've been accused of some things in my time, but anti-intellectual is not one of them. And do you even know what you mean by "post-modernism"?  Your response is a straw-man.

When I talk about people, I talk about human beings who think and feel and who have emotional as well as intellectual needs.  Belittling people for their beliefs, making them feel stupid and worthless has an emotional impact just as much as telling them they're going to rot in hell, so no, morally, I don't see a difference.

I can't think of anyone I know who, because of their religious beliefs, is not interested in how scientific understanding has pushed back the boundaries of human knowledge on an unimaginable scale in recent years (that's not to say that people like that don't exist as that's self-evident).  There are massive, complicated, unanswered questions about - in Douglas Adams' words "Life, the Universe and Everything" that science has not only solved, but has posed.  It is not even close to answering them all.

[EDIT, just to clarify: what I'm saying here is that to suggest religious belief, at a general level, is incompatible with scientific endeavour is palpable nonsense.  Scientific rigour and deep questioning using one of the the universe's most bewildering characteristics, self-awareness, to find answers to your emotional needs are just parts of the same continuum.]

Religion is persistent because it allows people to think of themselves as part of a bigger sense of consciousness.  A thought that might go something like this: "Millions of years of human history of which my lifespan is but a flicker, and yet still the Ultimate questions aren't revealed to us...but perhaps this ancient knowledge has the answers that we're just finding our way to?" 

That's not anti-intellectual. Wishful thinking, maybe, but it gives people something that they can hang their questions on and makes them think that their life is worthwhile.  You may wear your cynicism and pessimism on your sleeve, but you needn't force your beliefs on [others]: that's just as bad as what the fire-and-brimstone preachers do.

[EDIT] Grammar!
Last edited by Simon on Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Blaze

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:01 pm

ryanyoxall wrote:
Yes blaze I was born into it and the reason believe it is because it answers nearly all questions about how we got here and how the earth got into the state it's in now.

And the reason that we are the only religion that goes out regularly is because we follow the all the bible while other Christian faiths pick and choose parts on what to believe and what not to.

Firstly, the universe is about 13.75 billion years old, Earth is 4.54billion and life started about 4 billion years ago. None of this is in the bible. All evidence points to a 'big bang', to the point where we can call it a scientific theory, which is as good as it gets in terms of being an explanation for something.

You're using the 'no true Scotsman' argument. All religious denominations claim they are the only true interpretation and all the others are wrong. The simple fact is the bible is from the very first page not scientifically accurate and full of insane contradictions, which takes a hell of a lot of doublethink to accept. For example the 'Ten commandments', which are given several times (Exodus twice and Deuteronomy), and are different, as well as being loads other 'commandments' throughout.
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:11 pm

The bible is not competing with science and at no point does it say that the universe is this age and the earth is this age, it simply says that God created. And it does not say how, God could have created them through the big bang which is still just a theory.

And the ten commandments were for the people at that time and we now follow 2 main commandments that cover all of them. And where is the bible scienctifically incorrect?

And why are you trying to 'rip up' everyone's beliefs? This topic is called religious beliefs and not called prove why someone else's beliefs are wrong.
Last edited by RyanY on Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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