UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
Anthony
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:16 pm

My point is that a Deist god has no influence on life other than being the unmovable mover and so human life is inconsequential to 'it' and life remains as meaningless as it would be had you never mentioned a deity. Does the person who flicks the dominoes over matter if they don't watch or care what happens?

Serious question to all religious people on here:

What does your religion do for you that you could not get from anywhere else?

No, I don't mean free wine.

:P
 
fredward

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:18 pm

Probably the same thing Portal gives me... Happy juice in my pants.
 
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RyanY
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:22 pm

That's a good question Anthony, it gives me peace of mind and a nice healthy atmosphere in which to enjoy when I'm with other people of the same religion. And it gives me understanding of what life is for.
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:24 pm

Guys, can we cool down in here please. Things are getting personal and insulting in here now. No bullying will be tolerated on the forums. Respect other peoples opinions and views.
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:37 pm

ryanyoxall wrote:
That's a good question Anthony, it gives me peace of mind and a nice healthy atmosphere in which to enjoy when I'm with other people of the same religion. And it gives me understanding of what life is for.


Peace of mind about what?

I get what nice is, most people are generally nice, but what is a 'healthy atmosphere'?

What other 'understandings of life' have been presented to you by those who share your faith? There are many, as this thread shows.

Do you need peace of mind at your age? What conflict has gone on in your mind that you crave peace?

What is your understanding of what life is for?

Where is the fun in knowing what life is about? Isn't the learning in the journey?
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:50 pm

Peace of mind about what to expect from the future.

A healthy atmosphere in which you are welcome by everyone of any age.

The understanding of life is that soon this system of things will soon be gone, by means of gods will. And be replaced by a perfect world with people that are also perfect, which was the way god always planned it to be.

And has anyone close to you died, well if someone close to me dies then I have the 'peace of mind' to know that I will see them soon by means of he resurrection.
 
Blaze

Re: Religious Beliefs.

Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:25 pm

ryanyoxall wrote:
Peace of mind about what to expect from the future.

A healthy atmosphere in which you are welcome by everyone of any age.

The understanding of life is that soon this system of things will soon be gone, by means of gods will. And be replaced by a perfect world with people that are also perfect, which was the way god always planned it to be.

And has anyone close to you died, well if someone close to me dies then I have the 'peace of mind' to know that I will see them soon by means of he resurrection.

Well if he 'intended' it to be one way, but it wasn't, then he didn't do a good job, therefore isn't perfect, therefore isn't a god, by religion's own definition of a god.

I've lost people. I don't choose to believe they're somewhere else, I just have to accept that once they're gone they're gone, and if anything, that makes me cherish them even more while they're alive.
 
fredward

Re: Religious Beliefs

Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:35 pm

I honestly believe this topic is going to far... not much of a religion topic.. as a flame religion topic...
 
Anthony
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Re: Religious Beliefs

Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:40 pm

ryanyoxall wrote:
Peace of mind about what to expect from the future.


What is that? Anything could happen! Do you think the people you hear about going through traumatic events ever thought it would really happen to them? People's lives are turned upside-down by events totally out of their control. Did the parents of a disabled child think they would be in the situation they are when they first talked about having a child? Did the person who went blind ever think they would? The future is so uncertain I can't see how you can have any peace of mind about it other than to take it as it comes and deal with things when they present themselves.

A healthy atmosphere in which you are welcome by everyone of any age.


Like...here? Isn't that to do with like-interests?

The understanding of life is that soon this system of things will soon be gone, by means of gods will. And be replaced by a perfect world with people that are also perfect, which was the way god always planned it to be.


Really? What makes you think that it will soon be gone when it has been here for billions of years? What is perfection and how are humans capable of achieving it? Will you be perfect? How? Will it still be you?

And has anyone close to you died, well if someone close to me dies then I have the 'peace of mind' to know that I will see them soon by means of he resurrection.


55 million people die every day. Where have they all gone? How do you meet them? Is it realistic to think this way?

I am not picking on you but you're the only one answering. It's no good me saying my view then you (or anyone in opposition) saying theirs. I understand there is a HUGE difference between the rhetoric of organised religion and the lifestyle that is built around a religion in a community.

Final question(s):

Do you think that all of these benefits you have described could be found in a completely different faith? If so, what makes yours true? They all have special scripture that is considered 'evidence'. If you had been born into another, could it not have provided you with everything that your actual faith does?



I agree with you, Blaze, but you're being silly now. This isn't about truth as much as it is about WHY people are attracted to a religious lifestyle. Everyone is on their own road through life trying to work it out. I find it interesting why people choose in their millions to essentially join the club rather than work it out for themselves.
Last edited by Anthony on Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Poison Tom 96

Re: Religious Beliefs

Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:41 pm

I am an atheist but I choose to seek peace of mind.

I do this by relaxing and usually find my peace at Alton which is my get away from daily life.

I can also find it by taking time out to reflect.

How do other people find their perfect peace?
Last edited by Poison Tom 96 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
.Will

Re: Religious Beliefs

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:08 pm

There seems to be one member who is hijacking/deterring the thread a little bit here, I think the OP specified "what are your religious beliefs" and I think we know that now.


Poison Tom 96 wrote:
How do other people find their perfect peace?


Easier said than done I'm afraid, most people have something bearing down on them all the time and can't ever relax because in a few weeks they have got this or that.

It's easier when you are a child because you are carefree but it hits you like a ton of bricks which means that recreational time is more important and more valuable. Some people meditate others do yoga, what ever suits you really.

I find though if I think I get more worked up, so I'm usually at my best when I forget everything and forget the seriousness of everything and chill out that's where AT comes in or just going out in general.
 
Simon

Re: Religious Beliefs

Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:14 am

I recently came across a Hindu creation story that went something like this:

In the beginning the whole of the Universe was a vast disordered ocean. Floating on this ocean is the snake Anata, and resting, asleep, coiled in the snake is the Lord Vishnu. The holy Om is heard and wakes Lord Vishnu, and from his navel a lotus flower springs with the Lord Brahma. Lord Brahma creates the world from himself so everything that is created is part of him. For all the time Lord Vishnu is awake, the Universe lives, but when Lord Vishnu sleeps, Lord Shiva destroys the Universe until everything is once more disorder and chaos.  then, from the chaos, Lord Vishnu appears once more and the cycle starts again.

As I've said, I am an atheist, but there are, for me, quite compelling aspects of this 'eternal cycle' view that interest me. As a piece of allegory, it's not difficult to see how close contemporary scientific understanding is to this when searching for clues to the origins and eventual endings of the Universe.  It is also absolutely true (again talking about science) that we are all, indeed, literally, the Universe itself.

This stuff was written down thousands of years ago. No-one really knows when, but it's at least 3000 years older than Christianity.

Now tell me that ancient humans lacked insight and understanding. Now tell me weare any closer to understanding the beginnings and eventual fate of the Universe.

We never will, because our only plane of reference is ourselves, the conscious Universe. You say destiny doesn't exist, why then, that's as good as admitting we can't know how the Universe will end. If we can't know, then all of the scientific understanding we can get will never plug that gap. Tend towards, maybe, but never close.
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs.

Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:54 am

Simon wrote:
So, thanks for those couple of posts, guys. Nice to know there are folks around making people feel able to share their personal beliefs in a topic where people are invited to share them and not feel like they're going to be ridiculed.

I think we used to call that 'trolling' and I didn't think that was welcome on TTF. It's not as if I go in AT general and start ridiculing you for sharing your personal thoughts on something that's important to you, is it?


I find it more amusing then anything that you could take exception to me posting an accurate summarised account of an unspecified religion. If you attribute my comment to any popular religious belief systems then that is your doing, and you can blame yourself for 'trolling'.

I would like to point out that this is a public forum where the public can exercise their right to free speech, so feel free to take issue with the content of my post and point out your disagreements, but please don't try to censor, that is not your jurisdiction.

Now, back onto the actual issue: I will treat cosmic Jewish zombie theories with as much respect as I will treat the leprechaun theories, the unicorn theories or indeed the flat-earth theories.

And as for deterring people from sharing their religious views, that is a good thing! I consider religion an enemy of humanity. The people who believe in white bearded men in the sky are often the same people who are in control countries, armies and weaponry which they have consistently used to kill and discriminate in the name of the beardy sky men. If I can do anything to make people see just how stupid they are to have a religious belief, or even just shame them so they don't feel comfortable in spreading their message like a cancerous virus, then I feel vindicated and that I have done the right thing in stopping this madness.

Believe that you can walk on water or you are the son of god? Off to the asylum for you! But if you believe that an ancient man called Jesus was... well then you are allowed to go round scaring children in schools with stories of hell. Heck, you can even create your own state and actually be listened to for advice by millions of people!

Religion poisons everything. It left a significant impact on my childhood and I have often been met with hate from religious people who think that I deserve to go to hell purely for not accepting the insanity as truth. So I'm sorry if I forget to be tolerant, but I have been oppressed and made to feel isolated by the religious for long enough. It is time to fight fire with fire, and if your feelings get hurt, I'm not going to even pretend to care because you shouldn’t have been in the kitchen in the first place.

And to conclude, what have me and blaze REALLY done? We used words to criticize something?! I mean what awful extremists we must be?! Using words and reason to make a point?! The very cheek of it?!

If 'disrespectful' words are enough to shake someone’s confidence then maybe those people should start reconsidering whether religion is really for them. If you REALLY believe this stuff is ACTUALLY real, then it shouldn't be so easy to ridicule.

EDIT: I didn't read the entire topic but I have just now seen that some of the TTF team have asked for this particular discussion dealing with ridicule and respect to stop, so I leave it to the Moderators to make the decision on whether to remove this post or not as I can see it could reignite that issue. However I do ask for it to stay purely for fairness, as I had not been able to reply to Simon but I'm sure you guys know best whichever way you choose.
Last edited by Meat Pie on Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dormiens-Dave

Re: Religious Beliefs

Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:41 am

The issue here guys is that no topic in this forum should get personal and this repeatedly is, discussion should deal with the facts as you each individually see them and a debate can continue. The trouble is some of the discussion here is a "stamping of feet"... "throwing dummy out of the pram" level of quality and that neither continues the debate or helps tempers.

Disagree by all means but maintain some respect for opposing views and keep the personal out of it. This topic has had no end of moderation from more than half of the team and it will just get locked if the debate doesn't enter a more adult tone.

And if you want to play the freedom of speech card then i would simply say that if only for the sake of my eyes freedom of speech should come with some responsibility to use it constructively. Debate, disagree and discuss but keep it civil.

Thanks
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:02 pm

Dormiens-Dave wrote:
The issue here guys is that no topic in this forum should get personal and this repeatedly is, discussion should deal with the facts as you each individually see them and a debate can continue. The trouble is some of the discussion here is a "stamping of feet"... "throwing dummy out of the pram" level of quality and that neither continues the debate or helps tempers.

Disagree by all means but maintain some respect for opposing views and keep the personal out of it. This topic has had no end of moderation from more than half of the team and it will just get locked if the debate doesn't enter a more adult tone.

And if you want to play the freedom of speech card then i would simply say that if only for the sake of my eyes freedom of speech should come with some responsibility to use it constructively. Debate, disagree and discuss but keep it civil.

Thanks


I would like to start by saying that I have the greatest of sympathies with anyone who has the challenge of moderating a religious discussion as it is always going to be controversial. But it is for that very reason why I feel it is impossible to talk about these issues without using passionate and controversial language. The way I see it is, you either rule out the discussion of religion entirely or you subject it to the same rules that applies to everything else. This includes the idea that if it can be ridiculed then you are allowed to ridicule it. To ring-fence this particular subject matter is unfair and just because somone doesn’t like the fact that somone else is making fun of religious belief does not mean they can (in your words) “throw the dummy out of the pram” by labelling people as trolls.

You ask for the topic not to become personal which is a completely valid request. However I ask you if the ridiculing of major world religions actually constitutes a personal attack on any one person? I would say that it absolutely does not and if a religious person wants to take personal offence then that is their problem. An attack on the belief itself is not in any way intended to be an attack on the individuals who believe it.

There is a very good reason why I ridicule and use what some consider 'offensive' tactics. It is not because I disrespect the person that I am opposing but actually because I do respect them very much. If I were to water-down my views and pretend that religion has legitimate arguments to make, I may be showing more respect for the religion, but I would be disrespecting my debating opponent as that is just condescending and patronising. I have far too much respect for people to engage in that. To respect the person not the belief is what I strive for.

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech whether you dress it up with false respect or really tell it how you honestly see it. If you don’t like what you hear then challenge the idea itself, but do not challenge the right to say it.

I realise that this debate is already past it's sell-by date so I intend to make this my last post on the issue, but I just wanted to clear up a few things.
Last edited by Meat Pie on Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Simon

Re: Religious Beliefs

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:36 pm

Oh FGS.

*Immolates self*

Earlier, I was annoyed with Meat Pie because I thought that he was going to get a topic locked which has a great capacity for some really good exploration of people's beliefs, simply because he was late to the party and wanted to boringly restate everything that had already been said just because he hadn't personally said it.

Nevertheless, after that I thought that Dave's intervention might, belatedly, but finally, get people to put a bloody sock in it.

Now I say: lock it. 

Clearly, the determination to have "the last word" has overtaken any semblance of sensible constructive discussion where people might explore beliefs whether religious, philosophical, spiritual and material.

I thought I might learn something, but sadly, the trolls have moved in and hijacked it again, as usual.
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:50 pm

How dare I discuss issues surrounding Religious Beliefs in the topic about Religious Beliefs?!

Somebody put me in prison!
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Simon

Re: Religious Beliefs

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:59 pm

I thought you wanted to discourage people from talking about their religious beliefs by posting in the topic about religious beliefs?

Isn't that what you said?

I'm sure that's what you said?

Oh yes, here it is:

Meat Pie wrote:
And as for deterring people from sharing their religious views, that is a good thing!
 
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Re: Religious Beliefs

Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:26 pm

Indeed sir I do wish to discourage religious people from sharing their beliefs but not by the forcible locking of a topic when it isn't going their way. That solution smells suspiciously like police state if you ask me.

The way in which I intend to discourage the spreading of religion is not by enforcement but by pointing out all the faults and making religious people realise that their beliefs are as legitimate as bigfoot, the flying spaghetti monster or father Christmas. Make them see shame in their silliness and this I hope goes towards convincing them to become atheist at best, or to at the very least get them to keep their myths to themselves out of worry of being mocked.  I know that sounds radical but Religion thrives on misunderstanding and this leads to oppression and murder and it does need to be defeated, if we want to live in a safe world.

So yes, freedom of speech for all but do not think for second that your opinion deserves respect.

Oh hang on one second... I've just had a divine revelation since writing all of that. I am now a believer. I believe that the universe is being controlled and operated by a league of farting nuns. Their holy gassiness has turned my life around and I feel utterly enriched. Oh, and I am their son and I have powers as well.

Please respect my beliefs.
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Satch

Re: Religious Beliefs

Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:51 pm

Oh lord, listen to yourself prattle on!

Freedom of speech without respect is an oxymoron (maybe you are attracted to the moron?). If you remove the respect than it borders on fascism.

Just saying

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