UK theme parks from another point of view!

 
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The Terminator
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:24 am

Sam that's not a threat, I'm just reminding you of laws that exist about calling people names on public forums, it's called slander.

You can call me anything you like but I'm not a homophobe.

I was trying to be nice and wish you will on your crusade but I won't bother now.
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Jordan

Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:24 am

Just would like to point out that, in terms of parliamentary business, many bills go through parliament every week - take a look at the list of current bills in the few weeks since the state opening of parliament back in May.
 
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Sam
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:28 am

The Terminator wrote:
Sam that's not a threat, I'm just reminding you of laws that exist about calling people names on public forums, it's called slander.


Actually it's libel when it's written down, only slander when it's spoken or broadcast. But yeah OK, I'll see you in court, this will definitely go to trial.

garyh wrote:
Sam, calm down, count to 10!!!!    You are beginning to sound like that guy off Little Britain who calls everyone a homophobe lol!


"everyone"? Just one person, because he is a homophobe. Just one.  :roll:

garyh wrote:
I'm not going to be drawn in on the whole equal marriage thing, I havent read any of it, dont understand the changes being proposed, glad that people can have civil partnerships, and dont really care as long as everyone is happy  :)


It's really not hard to understand. The change will allow people of the same gender to marry each other the way that people of opposite genders can now. It's really that simple.

The Terminator wrote:
I was trying to be nice and wish you will on your crusade but I won't bother now.


We don't need your help thanks. :)
 
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The Terminator
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:34 am

Look Sam, last chance don't call me a homophobe again or I will report you.
I WILL be back
 
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:40 am

Sam wrote:
It's really not hard to understand. The change will allow people of the same gender to marry each other the way that people of opposite genders can now. It's really that simple.


Forgive my ignorance - but cant same sex couples already do this by means of a civil partnership?
 
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Sam
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:42 am

The Terminator wrote:
Look Sam, last chance don't call me a homophobe again or I will report you.


Stop saying homophobic things then! I think it's quite an accurate label to describe someone who is clearly hostile to gay rights. It's not really a slur or a loaded term - it has quite a clear definition which you meet.

You've made it obvious you're opposed to gay rights, using the flimsy pretence that it's not wise to spend money on it during a time of austerity. As me and others have quite definitively proven, this wouldn't make any logical sense even to a teenager. Thus we can only deduce that your hostility to human rights is caused by homophobia, unless you can come up with another logical argument against gay marriage besides cost, which has been thoroughly debunked. :)
 
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:56 am

Sam wrote:
The Terminator wrote:
Look Sam, last chance don't call me a homophobe again or I will report you.


Stop saying homophobic things then! I think it's quite an accurate label to describe someone who is clearly hostile to gay rights. It's not really a slur or a loaded term - it has quite a clear definition which you meet.

You've made it obvious you're opposed to gay rights, using the flimsy pretence that it's not wise to spend money on it during a time of austerity. As me and others have quite definitively proven, this wouldn't make any logical sense even to a teenager. Thus we can only deduce that your hostility to human rights is caused by homophobia, unless you can come up with another logical argument against gay marriage besides cost, which has been thoroughly debunked. :)



It's not the cost it's the time it takes up with debates etc.
Under normal circumstances it could be waved though but there are a lot of bigots as MP's and Lords therefore it will take up a lot of parliaments time which they don't have as there is a lot of bills to go through this parliament.
If you watch sky news this has been discussed in detail.
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Sam
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:09 am

The Terminator wrote:
It's not the cost it's the time it takes up with debates etc.
Under normal circumstances it could be waved though but there are a lot of bigots as MP's and Lords therefore it will take up a lot of parliaments time which they don't have as there is a lot of bills to go through this parliament.
If you watch sky news this has been discussed in detail.


So... the politicians not supporting gay marriage are "bigots", but they should get their way purely because they exist and therefore they should triumph over the majority of MPs who do support equal marriage? The logical extension being, it isn't worth introducing any bill at all unless it has absolute full support across the entire house, just in case time is spent debating it, which is the entire point of parliament (debating new laws) to begin with?

With respect, that point is so nonsensical that it is impossible to engage with in any sort of intelligent way.

The Terminator wrote:
If you watch sky news this has been discussed in detail.


I wouldn't trust everything you see on MurdochVision™.
 
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:26 am

I think you need to step away for a while and come back and read what I have written with a clear head.
My argument has always been about time not money, and whilst I love your enthusiasm I think it's clouding your judgement.

And fyi Sky news is not part of sky tv anymore it's independent which is why it's on freeview.
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Sam
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:45 am

The Terminator wrote:
And fyi Sky news is not part of sky tv anymore it's independent which is why it's on freeview.


The "free" in Freeview simply means the channels on it are free to watch once you've bought the set-top box, it's not a comment on the ownership structure of the channel.  :roll:

It is still part of Sky TV, it's mostly owned by BSkyB and partially directly by Murdoch's News Corporation. Please get your facts right before posting!
Last edited by Sam on Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:59 am

Sam wrote:
The Terminator wrote:
And fyi Sky news is not part of sky tv anymore it's independent which is why it's on freeview.


The "free" in Freeview simply means the channels on it are free to watch once you've bought the set-top box, it's not a comment on the ownership structure of the channel.  :roll:

It is still part of Sky TV, it's mostly owned by BSkyB Broadcasting and partially directly by Murdoch's News Corporation. Please get your facts right before posting!



And was sold off to allow the takeover of Murdoch which obviously didn't happen, anyway off topic.
I can see that we're not going to see eye to eye on any of this as you seem to have got the wrong end of the stick but if you look back though my posts you will not find one homophobic word.
Just because we don't agree 100% does not make me a homophobe either, debate is healthy calling people is downright nasty.

Anyway I'm going to bugger off from this thread now so enjoy.
I WILL be back
 
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Sam
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:54 pm

Well I'm glad we got that mystifying digression out of the way.

I want to give you more banners! The consultation closes on Thursday, so get your skates on. :)
 
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:47 pm

garyh wrote:
Sam wrote:
It's really not hard to understand. The change will allow people of the same gender to marry each other the way that people of opposite genders can now. It's really that simple.


Forgive my ignorance - but cant same sex couples already do this by means of a civil partnership?


Well, yes they can and largely a civil partnership follows the same outcome as heterosexual marriage but it's still unequal rights much like the jurisdictions on adoption by same sex couples. That is essentially what this topic is fighting for; Equal treatment using the same social union for everybody regardless of sexuality. Civil partnership is merely a legal mechanism that is inferior and a separate institution to what marriage is truly about by allowing mistreatment towards same sex couples.

Currently there are 10 countries outside England that accept same sex marriage, 6 within the EU, with Denmark next for law legislation on the 15th June and proves that such a loving union can happen. There are also some jurisdictions such as Mexico City and 7 American states that allow same sex marriage, which is great, but this small proportion isn't enough for the sake of equality.
 
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:15 pm

garyh wrote:
Sam wrote:
It's really not hard to understand. The change will allow people of the same gender to marry each other the way that people of opposite genders can now. It's really that simple.


Forgive my ignorance - but cant same sex couples already do this by means of a civil partnership?


A good comparison is segregation during various civil rights struggles. It's similar to black people and white people being made to drink from different, but identical, water fountains. It may be effectively the same service, but the separation between civil partnerships and marriage emphasises difference, inequality and inferiority.
 
Simon

Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:35 pm

Heh, 'mystifying' - one of my favourite 'words to use in debate to describe non sequiturs'.

After 'baffling'.
 
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:35 pm

Sam wrote:
garyh wrote:
Sam wrote:
It's really not hard to understand. The change will allow people of the same gender to marry each other the way that people of opposite genders can now. It's really that simple.


Forgive my ignorance - but cant same sex couples already do this by means of a civil partnership?


A good comparison is segregation during various civil rights struggles. It's similar to black people and white people being made to drink from different, but identical, water fountains. It may be effectively the same service, but the separation between civil partnerships and marriage emphasises difference, inequality and inferiority.

I'll be honest, up until now I've found it difficult to truly see why there is much of a problem with things as they stand, but that simple analogy really makes it crystal clear.
 
Simon

Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:39 pm

Maybe we could get a good catchy hastag going on Twitter.  The government's disability reforms were derided with the line #kickthecaneaway.  Given the civil rights analogy, maybe we could go with #getoffthebusRosa?
 
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:44 pm

Islander wrote:
I'll be honest, up until now I've found it difficult to truly see why there is much of a problem with things as they stand, but that simple analogy really makes it crystal clear.


I was in a similar position at first, but I ended up signing for two reasons.
1 - the analogy with racial discrimination - "separate but equal is not equal"
2 - to show my support for equality and stand against the bigots fighting against it
 
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:51 pm

Well this topic got a bit too "Daily Fail" for my liking :roll:

Just completed the consultation, may I have a banner? :D
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Re: TTF sex scandal!

Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:48 am

I see the church are getting their knickers in a twist over all of this.

Please, write to your MP and let them know if you're in favour of the proposed changes. I've written the following to mine:

Dear xxxxxx,

I am writing to you regarding the current consultation and (hopefully)
new legislation for equal marriage.

I am a gay man and completely in favour of civil marriage being opened
up to same-sex couples. This is a civil matter and increasingly I am
seeing rhetoric, posturing and ultimatums coming from the Church within
the media with hollow arguments against the proposed changes. As I see
it, this issue has nothing to do with the Church, religious marriage or
religion as a whole.

As one of your constituents who will be greatly affected in a positive
way if this new legislation is passed, I would beg of you to err on the
side of equality rather than religious scaremongering.

I have not seen one logical argument against same-sex marriage come
from the Church, only theological ones. Theology has no place in
parliament in a secular democracy.

In history, minority groups have needed parliament to stand up for them
on issues of equality and Labour have had a great track record with
this over the past decade: normalising the age of consent for
homosexuals, adoption rights have been improved and civil partnerships
were a step in the right direction. But, civil partnerships are a
halfway house to what should be equal marriage rights for same-sex
couples. The term "separate but equal" comes to mind and history has
shown that this stance in the USA was segregating, damaging and, more
importantly, discriminatory. It's time we scrapped this difference in
unions and allowed same-sex couples the same rights, name and
recognition for their relationships as heterosexual couples have.

Yours sincerely,

xxxxx
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