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The Terminator
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Benefits debate

Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:14 pm

Right Mr Cameron has announced that we should have a sensible debate on the future of benefits for the unemployed etc so lets have one.

My point of view is that the state should offer a safety net and not a lifestyle choice.
People that loose there jobs should be supported in every way possible, but there should be a time limit and maybe scale Benefits down the longer you claim them.
Obviously disabled people should be exempt but here too must there be safety device to make sure people are genuine.
This is a very emotive subject but it has to said there is no pot of gold and it has to paid for from somewhere so I welcome the chance to have a sensible debate about it.
Last edited by The Terminator on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Adam
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Re: Benifits debate

Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:20 pm

I've taken issue with the so called "benefits" we are supposed to get in this country.

I was out of work from the end of 2010 until around April 2011, signing on for job seekers at the time to help tide me over. Bare in mind I was paying rent on a fairly big house, council tax and bills. So I applied for housing benefits and council tax relief, to only be told... "I earn too much..."

Since when is Job seekers (like £70 a week) earning too much!?

As you can imagine, I was livid!!

So IMO something really needs to be done about the whole system! It needs to be made fair on a more individual basis.
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Re: Benefits debate

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:56 pm

I'm afraid that with David Cameron as PM and that fascist Iain duncan smith in charge, the walfare system is going to get much worst.

There seams to be no compasion for anyone on walfare. According to them, it's a lifestyle choice. I would like them to explain to me how my disability is a choice. I didn't wake up on day and thought "I'm now disabled! I'm going to find communication and social interaction hard, make up a mental health illness and find leaving my own home hard", just to claim £180 a fortnight on benifits. I know they are people who are worst off than I am but I live off that. If I was forced onto job seekers with less money being paid in and having the expectation of looking for a job eg "If you don't apply for this job and that job you loose your benifts" I just couldn't cope with that amout of stress.

Yes they are people who do abuse the system indeened to help the most vulnerable and that has to be adressed. I hate being stigmatized as being part of that. I'm trying to intergrate and function into society the best way I can. I've atteneded a local drama group for years which I've helped out and voulonteered there. And hopefully by doing that, that can lead onto futher oppertunities including a career (if possible) So I wouldn't consider myself to be part of that group which the daily mail tend to write about.

They just has to be more understanding out there.
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Re: Benefits debate

Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:11 pm

I think the issue here is people who are paying tax and working are livid that so much is being directed to the terminally lazy and not to those who need it. Those who need it are getting bare minimum already and taxpayers getting shafted to the max, the only people winning here are benefits cheats and frauds.
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Re: Benefits debate

Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:17 pm

I was working, and have worked all my life. Paying alot of Tax in the process too.

I recently lost my full time job working 40 hours per week. I am currently looking for work, but under my personal circumstances I am now getting more money off the state each month than what I was getting when working full time. So, for me, unless I find a job that I enjoy doing I am going to sit back and let the state pay what I have payed into it over the years, and persue my personal interests and hobbies with my spare time.
 
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Re: Benefits debate

Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:22 pm

^That is the ENTIRE problem. No incentive to work. Benefits should be a roof, a bed and food. Not a leather sofa, plasma screen and holiday.
THC selectively targets and destroys tumor cells while leaving healthy cells unscathed. Conventional chemotherapy drugs, by contrast, are highly toxic; they indiscriminately damage the brain and body.

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Re: Benefits debate

Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:10 pm

Doopy Dan wrote:
I was working, and have worked all my life. Paying alot of Tax in the process too.

I recently lost my full time job working 40 hours per week. I am currently looking for work, but under my personal circumstances I am now getting more money off the state each month than what I was getting when working full time. So, for me, unless I find a job that I enjoy doing I am going to sit back and let the state pay what I have payed into it over the years, and persue my personal interests and hobbies with my spare time.


Well I suppose at least you've paid into the system, but that's all I agree with about this.
The benefits system is a safety net not a lifestyle choice, if everyone had that attitude we'd all be sat at home on our backsides.
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Re: Benefits debate

Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:50 pm

I don't know if this would be popular or not.

I cant under stand why people from other EU countries that don't have our benefits system can enter the country and get benefits straight off.  I think you need to be born and lived in the uk or work full time for 5 years before being able to claim.
 
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Re: Benefits debate

Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:57 am

Delta79 wrote:
I don't know if this would be popular or not.

I cant under stand why people from other EU countries that don't have our benefits system can enter the country and get benefits straight off.  I think you need to be born and lived in the uk or work full time for 5 years before being able to claim.


I agree with this! There's a guy across the road who moved here from Romania, not worked a single day here, was given benefits and a flat. You should see the size of his TV! I can watch it clearly from over the other side of the road! He'd got a brand new car and just had a new swanky kitchen installed. I was at the pub one day and he was boasting about it all, people in there were getting angry so he drank his drink, smiled and walked out. This is one of the major issues we have in this country!
Im all for people who have lost their jobs and finding it tough to get a new one, as long as they're being serious about getting a new one then yes helping them keep a roof over their head is fine.
Disability benefit - fine! Some people don't get enough IMO.
But their needs to be more care to make sure no one abuses the system.
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Re: Benefits debate

Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:03 pm

It is a shame his boasting was not filmed and put on you tube.  then que the red faces in westminster.

as for Disability benefit, i know people that really need it and are struggling with what they get. 
Last edited by Delta79 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Benefits debate

Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:03 pm

It is a shame his boasting was not filmed and put on you tube.  then que the red faces in westminster.

as for Disability benefit, i know people that really need it and are struggling with what they get.
 
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Re: Benefits debate

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:24 pm

I think treat people as you wish to be treated is a great rule of thumb
If I speak on this subject I imagine I'm making the rules for myself
In which case benifits should TOTALY be given to those who are just simply unable to work - mentally and physically
However if I was intelligent but lazy or if I was localy-disabled but skilled in other areas and knew full well there was work I could do- if I'm in that position- then I imagine its pretty barable for someone to come along and tell me to get of my backside...But on the other hand if I'm in pain mentally of physically, if someone telling me to work drives me into the ground because I know I cannot handle work- then in that situation (treating others as I want to be treated) its fine to be on benifits.

The problem is a standard bureaucratic system doesn't understand people in terms of how much pain or exhaustion theyre in - it needs medical definitions, maybe certificates, nationalities, dates...
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Re: Benefits debate

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:56 pm

MattsDesigns wrote:
I think treat people as you wish to be treated is a great rule of thumb
If I speak on this subject I imagine I'm making the rules for myself
In which case benifits should TOTALY be given to those who are just simply unable to work - mentally and physically
However if I was intelligent but lazy or if I was localy-disabled but skilled in other areas and knew full well there was work I could do- if I'm in that position- then I imagine its pretty barable for someone to come along and tell me to get of my backside...But on the other hand if I'm in pain mentally of physically, if someone telling me to work drives me into the ground because I know I cannot handle work- then in that situation (treating others as I want to be treated) its fine to be on benifits.

The problem is a standard bureaucratic system doesn't understand people in terms of how much pain or exhaustion theyre in - it needs medical definitions, maybe certificates, nationalities, dates...


Agree with you on pretty much everything. But a lot of employers do discriminate against the disabiled even thought by law you can't. So its all good saying to a disabled person who is fit for work, "get off you bum and start looking for work". It's hard enough for anyone who is on job seekers looking for work when there is harley any one employing. Remploy have closed now alot of its factories and the tory/lib goverment expects them to find a job.  :? 
Last edited by ImURNemesis on Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Benefits debate

Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:02 pm

I know a guy who applied for 12 jobs every day for 3 months. He took every interview and at the end of it had 3 job offers on the table, 2 of them higher than he was looking for money wise. If you work for a job, you will get one.
THC selectively targets and destroys tumor cells while leaving healthy cells unscathed. Conventional chemotherapy drugs, by contrast, are highly toxic; they indiscriminately damage the brain and body.

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Re: Benefits debate

Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:32 pm

ImURNemesis wrote:
Agree with you on pretty much everything. But a lot of employers do discriminate against the disabiled even thought by law you can't. So its all good saying to a disabled person who is fit for work, "get off you bum and start looking for work". It's hard enough for anyone who is on job seekers looking for work when there is harley any one employing. Remploy have closed now alot of its factories and the tory/lib goverment expects them to find a job.  :?


Yeah true. Its difficult to find work in this current situation because of what I suspect is stream-lining due to how much retail/service has moved onto the internet. On this scale its an economic problem which I guess results in less money in the state. In either case the incapacitated need more understanding and the work placement thing could be a lot better and I'd say if just applying for work is Hellish enough, I know everyone hates it - but if its driving you to a tonne of frustration and you're disabled - then you may well not be ready to work.
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Re: Benefits debate

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:02 pm

The Moon wrote:
I know a guy who applied for 12 jobs every day for 3 months. He took every interview and at the end of it had 3 job offers on the table, 2 of them higher than he was looking for money wise. If you work for a job, you will get one.


Not always as simple as that. I've known people who are looking for and I mean... looking for work. My friend who has applied for work every single day through her own acord and through employment agencies. Pretty much anything that comes her way, resptionist, garment sorter, customer servise rep to name a few and no one is interested in employing because of her age and condition.

Employers are becoming more and more picky about who they hire because so many people are out of work. Its about 5 applicatants for every 1 job, it may not even be that because of the about of people unemployed people and so little jobs! It's all a great big mess!
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Re: Benefits debate

Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:44 pm

Anyone watch the Dispatches/Pararoma investigation into the DWP's and Atos's practise's within Disability benifits last night?

Watch it, and you'll soon understand just how horrible the process is.
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